Turbine telemetry for Kingtech's New Autostart ECU
#1
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (51)
Turbine telemetry for Kingtech's New Autostart ECU
Hello guys,
I finished developing my RTDT (Radio Turbine Data Terminal) for the new Kingtech ECU and Futaba Sbus2 / FRSKY radio.
this is an extremely light weight unit (7g without display, 15 grams with display) that reads ECU turbine data and sends it down to your Futaba / FRSKY radio via telemetry.
In addition, it has an optional LCD module for installation inside your model, in various sizes.
Please see the demo video, and contact me if intetrested.
As far as i know this is currently the only telemetry adapter in the world to support the new Kingtech Autostart ECU
thanks for looking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oat3jS9t8xk
I finished developing my RTDT (Radio Turbine Data Terminal) for the new Kingtech ECU and Futaba Sbus2 / FRSKY radio.
this is an extremely light weight unit (7g without display, 15 grams with display) that reads ECU turbine data and sends it down to your Futaba / FRSKY radio via telemetry.
In addition, it has an optional LCD module for installation inside your model, in various sizes.
Please see the demo video, and contact me if intetrested.
As far as i know this is currently the only telemetry adapter in the world to support the new Kingtech Autostart ECU
thanks for looking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oat3jS9t8xk
#2
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,472
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Very good, especially that it is for use on Futaba. However, the main telemetry requirement these days is the fuel related information. Can your unit display; fuel remaining in the tank(s) or some kind of fuel flow information?
Regards,
Jan
Regards,
Jan
#7
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (51)
I forgot to mention the RTDT offers full twin engine support - two units can use adjacent telemetry slots for a twin engine aircarft, and you get data from both units to the ground at the same time!
a very good addition to any twin engine aircaft, will allow immidiate alert of power loss in any one of the engines!
a very good addition to any twin engine aircaft, will allow immidiate alert of power loss in any one of the engines!
#8
My Feedback: (13)
Guys,
jeti offers a fuel flow module. It's expensive and you have to break your fuel line to utilize it.
I installed an MUI sensor (battery voltage and milliamperes used) inline to the fuel pump from the ecu. Through a little careful testing I've been able to determine how many milliamperes to use to equate to a fuel level I want to land at. Sometimes I have to land at 7 min, other times 10 or so but the fuel level is always the same. Very cool and I'm guessing some of the other radio manf have similar telemetry units for electrics. Food for thought! I saw where one guy set up a flameout alarm based off it too
David, jeti also has an rpm sensor for what that's worth. Not sure what you're running
dave
jeti offers a fuel flow module. It's expensive and you have to break your fuel line to utilize it.
I installed an MUI sensor (battery voltage and milliamperes used) inline to the fuel pump from the ecu. Through a little careful testing I've been able to determine how many milliamperes to use to equate to a fuel level I want to land at. Sometimes I have to land at 7 min, other times 10 or so but the fuel level is always the same. Very cool and I'm guessing some of the other radio manf have similar telemetry units for electrics. Food for thought! I saw where one guy set up a flameout alarm based off it too
David, jeti also has an rpm sensor for what that's worth. Not sure what you're running
dave
Last edited by ozief16; 02-12-2017 at 07:31 PM.
#10
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
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Hope you can get this working.
Jan
#11
If I am not mistaken, the xicoy telemetry for fuel flow does exactly this (for the engines without brushless pumps at least). If feasible, you just need an user-configurable multiplier param to allow fine tuning for each fuel setup, then a test run is all it takes to get it dialed in, isn't it so?
#12
My Feedback: (7)
Guys,
jeti offers a fuel flow module. It's expensive and you have to break your fuel line to utilize it.
I installed an MUI sensor (battery voltage and milliamperes used) inline to the fuel pump from the ecu. Through a little careful testing I've been able to determine how many milliamperes to use to equate to a fuel level I want to land at. Sometimes I have to land at 7 min, other times 10 or so but the fuel level is always the same. Very cool and I'm guessing some of the other radio manf have similar telemetry units for electrics. Food for thought! I saw where one guy set up a flameout alarm based off it too
David, jeti also has an rpm sensor for what that's worth. Not sure what you're running
dave
jeti offers a fuel flow module. It's expensive and you have to break your fuel line to utilize it.
I installed an MUI sensor (battery voltage and milliamperes used) inline to the fuel pump from the ecu. Through a little careful testing I've been able to determine how many milliamperes to use to equate to a fuel level I want to land at. Sometimes I have to land at 7 min, other times 10 or so but the fuel level is always the same. Very cool and I'm guessing some of the other radio manf have similar telemetry units for electrics. Food for thought! I saw where one guy set up a flameout alarm based off it too
David, jeti also has an rpm sensor for what that's worth. Not sure what you're running
dave
#13
My Feedback: (4)
Yes, you are right - that is why we would like an adapter to show fuel telemetry with the particular radio system and turbine being used. Not interested in adding fuelflow sensors/meters. Currently this is possible with almost every single combination in use. All the other telemetry of battery, rpm, temperature, speed etc. is secondary to fuel telemetry.
Hope you can get this working.
Jan
Hope you can get this working.
Jan
I am somewhat confused about the requests here. For YEARS we have been flying turbines and knowing that we had to land depending on the amount of time we flew because we used the computer between our ears to figure it out and set a timer. I think what Lior has put out is great because it gives me the ability to set an alarm of an over temp, an over rpm, a low rpm, etc. I fly with gassers so sometimes I can't hear the turbine, but this telemetry eliminates the need for me to have to hear my engine. I guess then if you start to depend on the fuel flow figures and something in the calibration goes wrong on a flight what then? To each their own, but the whole fuel flow thing is just a good guesstimate unless you use the device that goes inline of your fuel flow and actually measures how much fuel goes through it. This is just my opinion and it reflects how I feel..so don't read to much into it.
Patrick
Last edited by sirrom; 02-15-2017 at 03:21 PM.
#15
My Feedback: (4)
Timers are great, and they have worked for years. Ever forget to start a timer? If you have it set to a gear switch, mode switch, or something like that forgetting would be less likely. But in the event that it hasn't been started, a low level alarm is there to save you. Also, ever been in a situation where your timer has gone off, you are ready to come in but the runway is not clear for some reason? Or how about gear issues make multiple passes necessary and you wonder if you have enough fuel? The low level alarm will help you then.
Is it 100% necessary? Of course not. But I had this function with my last plane and it was nice to have. Pretty accurate too, and I never worried about whether I had enough fuel. Frankly, I used to land before the alarm anyway, either because I had set a timer or I just wanted to land for whatever reason. I had it set up so that a quick glance at my Jeti I could see how much fuel I had, real nice.
In the electric world, specifically helicopters, it's big now to have a capacity consumed alarm, similar to a "fuel tank" type of a thing. When that started critics would argue that timers have worked just fine, and they were right. But once you started flying knowing how much you had left, it was a whole new world. Fly hard, fly soft, putter around... doesn't matter, you will always know when you should land. I won't build another heli without it, and all of my electric planes in the future will have the capability as well. I am not as adamant about it with turbines, but it is really nice to have.
Product looks good though, those other features are nice to have too!
Tom M
Is it 100% necessary? Of course not. But I had this function with my last plane and it was nice to have. Pretty accurate too, and I never worried about whether I had enough fuel. Frankly, I used to land before the alarm anyway, either because I had set a timer or I just wanted to land for whatever reason. I had it set up so that a quick glance at my Jeti I could see how much fuel I had, real nice.
In the electric world, specifically helicopters, it's big now to have a capacity consumed alarm, similar to a "fuel tank" type of a thing. When that started critics would argue that timers have worked just fine, and they were right. But once you started flying knowing how much you had left, it was a whole new world. Fly hard, fly soft, putter around... doesn't matter, you will always know when you should land. I won't build another heli without it, and all of my electric planes in the future will have the capability as well. I am not as adamant about it with turbines, but it is really nice to have.
Product looks good though, those other features are nice to have too!
Tom M
#16
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
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Hi guys,
As Patrick said - to each his own.
For me, fuel telemetry is a must on my turbines. I also use to set timers and lived with all the possible inconsistencies associated with them. Now you can get accurate fuel remaining telemetry on most turbine ECU's which can be displayed on most radio systems.
I use a Futaba 18MZ (yes I know...and I agree....the units of display is a joke, but nevertheless) and with JetCat using a CB Telemetry adapter I can see accurately how much fuel I have left in my jet. With AMT and a Carsten Telemetry adapter I can see accurately how much fuel I have left in my jet. With KingTech (using the Xicoy ECU) and a Xicoy Telemetry adapter I can see accurately how much fuel I have left in my jet.
Get the picture yet?
All these options are using different values to calculate this fuel remaining telemetry - they only have one thing in common. The required information can be aquired from the ECU. All these adapters plug into the GSU slot and then feed back the info to the Rx.....etc.
By having the fuel remaining displayed, each fight can be different in terms of throttle management and circumstances can be judged much better (as Tom pointed out). Time is no longer a factor, you judge your flight duration by the amount of fuel you have left (which is pretty accurate when the adapters are used correctly).
So, please try to get this adapter to display the fuel telemetry.....that will be a first on this ECU.
Thank you for your efforts (?), I am following this development with keen interest.
Cheers,
Jan
As Patrick said - to each his own.
For me, fuel telemetry is a must on my turbines. I also use to set timers and lived with all the possible inconsistencies associated with them. Now you can get accurate fuel remaining telemetry on most turbine ECU's which can be displayed on most radio systems.
I use a Futaba 18MZ (yes I know...and I agree....the units of display is a joke, but nevertheless) and with JetCat using a CB Telemetry adapter I can see accurately how much fuel I have left in my jet. With AMT and a Carsten Telemetry adapter I can see accurately how much fuel I have left in my jet. With KingTech (using the Xicoy ECU) and a Xicoy Telemetry adapter I can see accurately how much fuel I have left in my jet.
Get the picture yet?
All these options are using different values to calculate this fuel remaining telemetry - they only have one thing in common. The required information can be aquired from the ECU. All these adapters plug into the GSU slot and then feed back the info to the Rx.....etc.
By having the fuel remaining displayed, each fight can be different in terms of throttle management and circumstances can be judged much better (as Tom pointed out). Time is no longer a factor, you judge your flight duration by the amount of fuel you have left (which is pretty accurate when the adapters are used correctly).
So, please try to get this adapter to display the fuel telemetry.....that will be a first on this ECU.
Thank you for your efforts (?), I am following this development with keen interest.
Cheers,
Jan
Last edited by Springbok Flyer; 02-16-2017 at 12:46 AM.
#17
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (51)
You guys are really all correct!
telemetry is something we can live without (and we all have until this was made available to us), but once you find that flying with it gives you REAL TIME data from the air, literally at your palm, for the first itme ever, you understand it is an important SAFETY feature worth utilizing, for both engine data and fuel data.
Some ECUs offer the fuel data (according to the manufacturers calibration) and when these are offered, i support them in my telemetry - this exists for Jetcat, Projet etc, but Xicoy and Kingtech dont offer it.
While its very much possible to write a code that integrates fuel quantity according to pump voltage integration, this will change with different engines / pump types, or even the age of the pump can effect it. and if i make a calibration mechnism, it needs a programmer to connect to the unit in order to load calibration parameters for each setup.
my units are super simple, plug and play, no hassle involved, and therefore i chose not to go that route for fuel level in Xicoy and KT.
i would also be worried about wrong calibration leading to a miscalculation of fuel quantity causing somebody a flameout, and possibly damage to the model or worse.
This is why i chose to display manufacturer data only, and not generate any telemetry data myself.
i feel this is the safest solution.
telemetry is something we can live without (and we all have until this was made available to us), but once you find that flying with it gives you REAL TIME data from the air, literally at your palm, for the first itme ever, you understand it is an important SAFETY feature worth utilizing, for both engine data and fuel data.
Some ECUs offer the fuel data (according to the manufacturers calibration) and when these are offered, i support them in my telemetry - this exists for Jetcat, Projet etc, but Xicoy and Kingtech dont offer it.
While its very much possible to write a code that integrates fuel quantity according to pump voltage integration, this will change with different engines / pump types, or even the age of the pump can effect it. and if i make a calibration mechnism, it needs a programmer to connect to the unit in order to load calibration parameters for each setup.
my units are super simple, plug and play, no hassle involved, and therefore i chose not to go that route for fuel level in Xicoy and KT.
i would also be worried about wrong calibration leading to a miscalculation of fuel quantity causing somebody a flameout, and possibly damage to the model or worse.
This is why i chose to display manufacturer data only, and not generate any telemetry data myself.
i feel this is the safest solution.
#18
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (51)
Hi guys,
As Patrick said - to each his own.
For me, fuel telemetry is a must on my turbines. I also use to set timers and lived with all the possible inconsistencies associated with them. Now you can get accurate fuel remaining telemetry on most turbine ECU's which can be displayed on most radio systems.
I use a Futaba 18MZ (yes I know...and I agree....the units of display is a joke, but nevertheless) and with JetCat using a CB Telemetry adapter I can see accurately how much fuel I have left in my jet. With AMT and a Carsten Telemetry adapter I can see accurately how much fuel I have left in my jet. With KingTech (using the Xicoy ECU) and a Xicoy Telemetry adapter I can see accurately how much fuel I have left in my jet.
Get the picture yet?
All these options are using different values to calculate this fuel remaining telemetry - they only have one thing in common. The required information can be aquired from the ECU. All these adapters plug into the GSU slot and then feed back the info to the Rx.....etc.
By having the fuel remaining displayed, each fight can be different in terms of throttle management and circumstances can be judged much better (as Tom pointed out). Time is no longer a factor, you judge your flight duration by the amount of fuel you have left (which is pretty accurate when the adapters are used correctly).
So, please try to get this adapter to display the fuel telemetry.....that will be a first on this ECU.
Thank you for your efforts (Sirrom), I am following this development with keen interest.
Cheers,
Jan
As Patrick said - to each his own.
For me, fuel telemetry is a must on my turbines. I also use to set timers and lived with all the possible inconsistencies associated with them. Now you can get accurate fuel remaining telemetry on most turbine ECU's which can be displayed on most radio systems.
I use a Futaba 18MZ (yes I know...and I agree....the units of display is a joke, but nevertheless) and with JetCat using a CB Telemetry adapter I can see accurately how much fuel I have left in my jet. With AMT and a Carsten Telemetry adapter I can see accurately how much fuel I have left in my jet. With KingTech (using the Xicoy ECU) and a Xicoy Telemetry adapter I can see accurately how much fuel I have left in my jet.
Get the picture yet?
All these options are using different values to calculate this fuel remaining telemetry - they only have one thing in common. The required information can be aquired from the ECU. All these adapters plug into the GSU slot and then feed back the info to the Rx.....etc.
By having the fuel remaining displayed, each fight can be different in terms of throttle management and circumstances can be judged much better (as Tom pointed out). Time is no longer a factor, you judge your flight duration by the amount of fuel you have left (which is pretty accurate when the adapters are used correctly).
So, please try to get this adapter to display the fuel telemetry.....that will be a first on this ECU.
Thank you for your efforts (Sirrom), I am following this development with keen interest.
Cheers,
Jan
Jan,
i developed the units, not Sirrom.
please read my last post, i DO SUPPORT the fuel quantity when the ECU offers it, and i explained exactly how i could offer fuel quantity to anyone who needs it.
#20
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,472
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Apologies, I thought you were Sirrom.....
Yes I have see the video, I was referring to the units iro fuel. As for your explanation of how it can be done - no problem, that is what Carsten and Caspar use as well. Both their adapters recognise the engine from the ECU (I assume the manufactures assisted them with this identification) and they require the fuel capacity to be entered. Then you can fine-tune the usage by doing a few flights and checking that the calculation factor (which is user generated) is correct. With the Carsten adapter the user can also fine-tune the usage by altering the idle and/or full throttle calculation factors. That is why I said 'these adapters are pretty accurate, if they are used correctly. As for 'old' pumps - no problem, just recalibrate the adapter by changing the calculation factor(s).
Anyway, when using any of these adapters it is wise to understate the fuel capacity and apart from checking actual usable fuel quantity, to always use a lesser fuel volume when entering the tank capacity.
Cheers,
Jan
Yes I have see the video, I was referring to the units iro fuel. As for your explanation of how it can be done - no problem, that is what Carsten and Caspar use as well. Both their adapters recognise the engine from the ECU (I assume the manufactures assisted them with this identification) and they require the fuel capacity to be entered. Then you can fine-tune the usage by doing a few flights and checking that the calculation factor (which is user generated) is correct. With the Carsten adapter the user can also fine-tune the usage by altering the idle and/or full throttle calculation factors. That is why I said 'these adapters are pretty accurate, if they are used correctly. As for 'old' pumps - no problem, just recalibrate the adapter by changing the calculation factor(s).
Anyway, when using any of these adapters it is wise to understate the fuel capacity and apart from checking actual usable fuel quantity, to always use a lesser fuel volume when entering the tank capacity.
Cheers,
Jan
#23
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (51)
I see, this makes the unit more complex and more expensive, which is a route i do not want to go.
I can definitly code the integral function on pump voltage, but we need to think about calibration.
One option that wont require calibration is simply summing pump voltage, and then whichever number you get as "full tank capacity" is now your full value, take 20% off that and thats your threshold for landing.
For example my tank is 5000ml.
But because i didnt calibrate, full tank actually "counts" 10,000ml. So i will simply set my alarm to 8000ml and be done with it.
I can definitly code the integral function on pump voltage, but we need to think about calibration.
One option that wont require calibration is simply summing pump voltage, and then whichever number you get as "full tank capacity" is now your full value, take 20% off that and thats your threshold for landing.
For example my tank is 5000ml.
But because i didnt calibrate, full tank actually "counts" 10,000ml. So i will simply set my alarm to 8000ml and be done with it.
Last edited by i3dm; 02-16-2017 at 03:38 AM.
#24
I see, this makes the unit more complex and more expensive, which is a route i do not want to go.
I can definitly code the integral function on pump voltage, but we need to think about calibration.
One option that wont require calibration is simply summing pump voltage, and then whichever number you get as "full tank capacity" is now your full value, take 20% off that and thats your threshold for landing.
For example my tank is 5000ml.
But because i didnt calibrate, full tank actually "counts" 10,000ml. So i will simply set my alarm to 8000ml and be done with it.
I can definitly code the integral function on pump voltage, but we need to think about calibration.
One option that wont require calibration is simply summing pump voltage, and then whichever number you get as "full tank capacity" is now your full value, take 20% off that and thats your threshold for landing.
For example my tank is 5000ml.
But because i didnt calibrate, full tank actually "counts" 10,000ml. So i will simply set my alarm to 8000ml and be done with it.
#25
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (51)
Of course.
Even if its not proportional, when you fly with varying throttle at a similar regime, you will get similar results.
Also similar mechnisms use a single factor, so i guess the results are close to proportional.
im not sure its worth the testing and coding investment. The unit is not designed to generate data items (even if others do it), but to reflect real ECU data to the pilot, which is already extremely useful.
Even if its not proportional, when you fly with varying throttle at a similar regime, you will get similar results.
Also similar mechnisms use a single factor, so i guess the results are close to proportional.
im not sure its worth the testing and coding investment. The unit is not designed to generate data items (even if others do it), but to reflect real ECU data to the pilot, which is already extremely useful.
Last edited by i3dm; 02-16-2017 at 05:56 AM.