papaone

Hello

Seen on CK aero FB and French forum :
https://fb.watch/53UbwowWS4/

David Bathe

Wow, that is really discerning.
OK, they mention it's been in the works for years, so ok, it's neat as a nostalgic "told you so" in a Howard Hughes - Spruce Goose sort of way.
But going forward?
Any brand manager out there should take a serious look at the YS brand, what it was, what it could've become... and what it has become.
There's a lesson here, and it's very sad IMO

FBW

I am not sure what you are getting at but YS is alive and well......we just imported 4 x 200s DZ CDI for local competition..

David Bathe

Nothing against YS, have a box full in the loft and still have 8 gallons of CP30% rotting in the garden shed.
And yes, they're the pinnacle of F3A IC design, like the absolutely magnificent Mallard with the pinnacle of steam powered locomotives.
But the writing was on the wall years ago and today, the YS brand has been equalled - most would say totally eclipsed - by contemporary brands dedicated to other contemporary F3A power trains.
My point, and it hurts me to say, is it's sad to see a brand that once represented the ultimate power package system, having nothing to offer the market other than small variations of a technology that has gone as far as it can go.
The posts from well meaning loyal supporters saying "if YS could come up with a counter rotating prop system.... they'd be onto a winner"... is a case in point. Hello, it's 2021.
Just to reiterate, this isn't a criticism of people that are still enjoying, competing and winning (big) using YS engines.

bjr_93tz

In all fairness, YS innovation has been a little hamstrung by the 5kg weight limit and the inherent vibration and cyclical nature of the output torque of their engines.

There's been about 100g-150g margin gained by the addition of modern technology and materials, much of which was soaked up with the addition of a CDI. However propeller weight, airframe construction, engine mounting and servo selection are all a little on the beefy side as necessitated by the powerplant. Also, all the (necessary?) dangly bits they like to attach to planes today are subtracting from YS's wiggle room with powerplant weight.

Unless there was some innovation in those areas to give YS 300+ grams to play with, there wasn't really much more they could do in F3A other than continue upping the displacement of a direct drive, single cylinder four-stroke.
Just my 2c.

FBW

Thats true but there's nothing stopping us from making a GP airframe smaller.......just like by necessity the EP airframes evolved into the fragile painted eggshell that we have today !!!!!

my 2c

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

I recently read a post by US F3A champion Andrew Jesky where he stated that he has flown glow (YS) powered models extensively and glow has a significant edge in power over e-power, yet he chooses to compete with e-power. In my opinion, YS does not need to increase power (and do they really need to run on 30% nitro?), rather, simplify the engine as much as possible to improve ease of operation, especially for novice glow pilots while retaining all their outstanding features (power, throttle response, low end torque, etc.). I’m a diehard glow guy and we’ll never achieve the plug and fly simplicity of electrics (though battery maintenance is their burden), but I hope there continues to be solid support for glow engines in pattern.

bjr_93tz

Those bloated goldfish are the mutant offspring of F3P planes that escaped into the wild from their aquarium.
However, it's a bit like animals bred for show or anorexic fashion models, as long as the schedules/judges keeps encouraging and rewarding the trend then it will flourish..

It'd take a brave person to turn up at a WC smaller model so they can run a heavier IC engine.
You'd need somebody with more courage than the bloke who showed up at the WC with an electric triplane.

FBW

Hmm point taken.......I just completed a GP ASCENT Monoplane from HUI YANG.
I am using the new YS 200s and the weight came in at 4800 grams this included beefing up the LG area and using twin battery system and not really trying to save on weight.
That gives us 200-250 grams to play with.........

David Bathe

I take it you're not a fan Bjr_ LOL

I'm an old school balsa guy, I look at todays "bloated goldfish" airframe and marvel on how can this be possible? The scale, the shapes, the aerodynamics. It's FANTASTIC!
The electric motors, so much power, no vibration, the beautifully engineered carbon fibre reduction drives, then the awesome counter prop systems... my god, they're stunningly beautiful. Then there's the flying styles, the complexity of the manurers, the slow elegance… Mind blowing.

F3P? I'm absolutely speechless. That sport, has done more to improve aerobatics, design thinking and flying skills than anything previously.
It wasn't that long ago when we'd watch the worlds top pattern guys at the Tournament of Champions, with a massive plane, 250cc gass engine belching smoke, props going supersonic, crowd going mental watching the plane... in a hover!
Hilarious.

I understand it isn’t everyones cup of tea but I think its truly wonderful where F3A is going and it's sad that one of the most innovative brands isn't going along and innovating with it.
Mind you... who knows what they have planned. Wink.

FBW

I think what you are trying to say is that all these gadgetry has made F3A such a boring sport to watch ...and you be 100% correct .
Watching some of these Contra withsuch big props been pulled along in the sky at snail pace is not real flying is it

David Bathe

You've got it:
As slow as possible, with a vicious cross wind, no skill required.

BrunoCH

..

bjr_93tz

I think you missed the sarcasm in David's post.

BrunoCH

Probably. I'll just delete it. I wasn't saying anything constructive anyway.

David Bathe

Thanks for setting the record straight, of course I was being sarcastic.
The memory I had was seeing Gerhard Mayr flying one of his typical designs in a brutal cross wing.
He flew far out, soooo slow, and sooooo big... the control... not of this earth!
I would have been over the line and way passed the trade tents... during the trip pass! LOL

Freddy

My Feedback: (3)

David Bathe aka blá-blá-blá you are back! We missed you refreshing to see you again on this forum. I have Ben out too. I too stopped F3A in late 2018. Love the bloated goldfish analogy I wish the designs returned to a smaller sleeker shape. The current designs look like foamies on steroids with way too many surfaces sticking in the wind. The French wonder CPLR still keeps it somewhat sleek with YS. I miss the PL prod days I had on of those myself. And the ultimate looker was the Larimar from Wolfgang. I would love to have one just to keep.

David Bathe

Yes Freddy, I drop in occasionally to see and hear the latest advances.
Got to say, I absolutely love ideas that lead to change that leads to innovation.
Having said that, I do empathise with those that don't. There's a little Luddite in everyone I guess.
Must say, It's sad to see RCU so empty compared top how it used to be. Wasn't that many years back when it was a hive of activity, balsa cutting, glow plugs, vigorous debate.
I believe there is still a Sticky of a post published in 1936 at the top of one of the pattern forums... something about making a soft mount for a OS GT33 out of old car tires, an empty 8 track cassette and a horse shoe.
Marvellous stuff.

FBW

I think what you are trying to say is that all this innovation is slowly killing off the sport.......or at least making it very boring to watch....If those Contras go any slower they will need to be flown indoors !!!!
Bring back that sweet and exciting sound of the 4 stroke I say.....

apereira

It is like the F3P of today, I can't watch it, it is so boring, and F3A is slowing down with contras to the point in the last WC judges tended to like the faster flying (some of them of course not all).

David Bathe

Good points. I can remember standing watching in early 70's, dumbed down speechless watching a piped Superstar do it's stuff at mach 2. The noise, the spectacle... a 16point roll from horizon to horizon. FANTASTIC!
The fact that it's still alive and kicking today in the vintage community is evidence that things don't actually change, they are simply superseded by something else.
I think F3A is now in such a transition period, young people bringing F3P practices into the F3A arena and folks scratching their heads trying to find the ideal compromise between the two genres. And there's the problem... it's a compromise and that's never good.
F3P arena is a 3d space, F3A isn't. That arena hasn't effectively changed since the flat canvas 60deg rule (quite a long time ago), the game and the mindset are still firmly fixed there. Sure there are some correction manoeuvres, or a rolling circle etc but's it's effectively still 2D canvas based.
The question is, how long can it remain so before it too is relegated to the vintage pattern community?
A paradigm shift is coming... stop thinking box, think 3D cube. Close, slow, big, multi directional and a real mind bending experience. WOW!

apereira

Exactly David,

I was going to get on F3P and simply said "no, this is ridiculous" (to me at least), and I do not like the flights Mayr use to do, soooo boring, the guy was a great pilot, but he was proof you can be great and extremely boring at the same time.

It just need to have a speed that let's you "see"the maneuver being drawn in the sky.

bjr_93tz

"speed" is simply a function of time and size, if they fly the schedule in the allowed time then it's all good?

But I tend to agree, big, slow and no smoke = something that may be technically excellent but hardly visually inspiring, if by the end of the maneuverer, the casual spectator has forgotten what the first half of it looked like.

Freddy

My Feedback: (3)

David Bathe you are onto it! You see good to have you back. I happened to be on recently due to crashing my trusty old ys175 Valiant.

David I vote for you to be a judge at the next WC and infiltrate the mafia of European judges!

The OS 33 sticky thread was from Matt Kebabjian a master builder and tinkerer a true artesian sadly gone RIP.

PS - if anyone knows where I can get an old Matt Larimar I want one!

PS 2 - the old PL Prod airplanes were awesome so were the babes good old days. I had a used one Fashion straight from them!

FBW

YEP....Just like watching Electric F1........
I would rather paint the wall and watch it dry...........