Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10-07-2003, 07:51 PM
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Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In a previous post I was accused of bashing a pilot and NEVER even mentioned the guys name! Then 2 or 3 people that were not even there when the airplane went down pipe up that they know the cause. Jetsett99 you were the first one to bring up the guys name not me.
Like it or not there are certain people that do not need a turbine waiver. This individual is one of them. He may be a super nice guy, and may be helpfull as hell but he is NOT qualified to fly a turbine jet and he proves that EVERY time he flies in public. No one is laughing at him. Several people have attempted to help him out but he won't listen. Someone has to step up to the plate and say enough is enough. That airplane was headed straight for the tents on pit row. Fortunately it crashed before reaching that point. It was nothing more than pilot error. The takeoff was smooth and the first 180 degree turn was fine, it went to hell in a handbasket after that. With total disregard to the rules of the event the pilot was out there without a spotter, one that could possibly have helped save the airplane. I was spotting for Vernon on the flight line at the time and wacthed this whole fiasco from start to finish. If the pilot had asked for help I would have been happy to help him myself. This guy needs more experience before he attempts to fly another jet.
Our hobby, not to mention our lives are at stake everytime someone like this launches an airplane into the air! I assure you I am not laughing at this guy!!!!
David Reid
P.S. Anytime ANYONE wants to take away my right to post they can go right ahead and do it.
Like it or not there are certain people that do not need a turbine waiver. This individual is one of them. He may be a super nice guy, and may be helpfull as hell but he is NOT qualified to fly a turbine jet and he proves that EVERY time he flies in public. No one is laughing at him. Several people have attempted to help him out but he won't listen. Someone has to step up to the plate and say enough is enough. That airplane was headed straight for the tents on pit row. Fortunately it crashed before reaching that point. It was nothing more than pilot error. The takeoff was smooth and the first 180 degree turn was fine, it went to hell in a handbasket after that. With total disregard to the rules of the event the pilot was out there without a spotter, one that could possibly have helped save the airplane. I was spotting for Vernon on the flight line at the time and wacthed this whole fiasco from start to finish. If the pilot had asked for help I would have been happy to help him myself. This guy needs more experience before he attempts to fly another jet.
Our hobby, not to mention our lives are at stake everytime someone like this launches an airplane into the air! I assure you I am not laughing at this guy!!!!
David Reid
P.S. Anytime ANYONE wants to take away my right to post they can go right ahead and do it.
10-07-2003, 07:59 PM
#2
RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well said, David...When you get to this level isn't one supposed to be proficient enough to fly???? I sent John a PM over this entire deal including the "fiasco" that happened last year at SM when the rudders fluttered off of his plane, one engine flamed out and the plane augered in. What's it gonna take---someone getting hurt...Or worse...KILLED?!?!?!
Kevin
Kevin
10-07-2003, 08:29 PM
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RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tony,
When it comes to safety we ALL need to get involved. I have no reason to slam the indivdual he may be a super nice person, he needs more stick time before he causes a major incident. Who knows you may be the one standing on the flightline at an event when he piles his plane into the pilots stations.
DR
When it comes to safety we ALL need to get involved. I have no reason to slam the indivdual he may be a super nice person, he needs more stick time before he causes a major incident. Who knows you may be the one standing on the flightline at an event when he piles his plane into the pilots stations.
DR
10-07-2003, 09:43 PM
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RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ORIGINAL: DavidR
Tony,
When it comes to safety we ALL need to get involved.
DR
Tony,
When it comes to safety we ALL need to get involved.
DR
Regards
Ben
10-07-2003, 09:44 PM
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RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We owe it to each other to ensure that we operate safely. If someone you know isn't safe or proficient, you MUST speak to him or her. Obviously you need to do it as tactfully as possible, but if that doesn't work you have to find a way to put a stop to the behavior. Imagine how you would feel if you say nothing and the offender goes on to hurt someone, cause serious damage or simply destroy an expensive airplane.
Antony
Antony
10-07-2003, 09:46 PM
#8
RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
David
As a witness on the flightline at the same time...I must agree with you 100% It has been a rare event that I have attended when the individual did not have some type of serious mishap.
Dean Wichmann
10-07-2003, 09:46 PM
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RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
G'day David,
Well, I don't know the individual concerned, but I have a few observations:
It doesn't matter whether you mentioned the guy's in the earlier thread name or not - unless there were numerous Viper crashes during the event, you basically identified him.
Now, I could be wrong here, but if I remember correctly, this is not the first time that we have had a discussion here about how someone should not, in your opinion, have a turbine waiver. Didn't we go through this same conversation last year ? If so, then it seems obvious that making posts here on RCU about how someone shouldn't have a turbine waiver has done nothing to alleviate what you see as a dangerous situation.
If you really feel that this individual (or anyone else) is dangerous and should not have a waiver, shouldn't you perhaps petition the JPO and/or AMA about having a formal process by which the qualifications of a waiver holder may be questioned and reassesed in a set and fair manner ? Wouldn't this be a far more constructive way to address the issue ?
Don't get me wrong - if this individual, or anyone else for that manner, is dangerous and should not really be in possession of a waiver, then I whole heartedly support your idea that the waiver should be removed until such time as he gains the necessary proficiency. However, I simply believe that public name-calling here on RCU is not the appropriate way to deal with the situation.
If we can keep the thread on the topic of how to address perceived safety issues with pilots how either never had the proficiency needed for a waiver, or who have lost proficiency since obtaining the waiver (e.g. dimished eyesight etc), then this can perhaps be a productive discussion.
Gordon
Well, I don't know the individual concerned, but I have a few observations:
It doesn't matter whether you mentioned the guy's in the earlier thread name or not - unless there were numerous Viper crashes during the event, you basically identified him.
Now, I could be wrong here, but if I remember correctly, this is not the first time that we have had a discussion here about how someone should not, in your opinion, have a turbine waiver. Didn't we go through this same conversation last year ? If so, then it seems obvious that making posts here on RCU about how someone shouldn't have a turbine waiver has done nothing to alleviate what you see as a dangerous situation.
If you really feel that this individual (or anyone else) is dangerous and should not have a waiver, shouldn't you perhaps petition the JPO and/or AMA about having a formal process by which the qualifications of a waiver holder may be questioned and reassesed in a set and fair manner ? Wouldn't this be a far more constructive way to address the issue ?
Don't get me wrong - if this individual, or anyone else for that manner, is dangerous and should not really be in possession of a waiver, then I whole heartedly support your idea that the waiver should be removed until such time as he gains the necessary proficiency. However, I simply believe that public name-calling here on RCU is not the appropriate way to deal with the situation.
If we can keep the thread on the topic of how to address perceived safety issues with pilots how either never had the proficiency needed for a waiver, or who have lost proficiency since obtaining the waiver (e.g. dimished eyesight etc), then this can perhaps be a productive discussion.
Gordon
10-07-2003, 10:01 PM
#10
RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gordon,
It's my understanding that the wheels have already been put into motion by others not associated with this thread as far as this persons waiver is concerned. The outcome will be determined by the AMA as it is in their hands. If they choose to sit on it then it will be their responsibility if or when something serious happens.
Safety is OUR responsibility!!! Our entire way of modeling is at stake EVERY time a turbine powered model leaves the runway. Forums like this ARE necessary for discussions such as this. Gordon, how would you like it if this person showed up at YOUR event, attempted to fly, crashed, and hurt someone or destroyed a great deal of property??? Even worse, you did not know about this person due to a moderator killing a thread in this forum. Gordon, this guys' flying really needs to be re-evaluated and EVERYONE needs a heads up when a guy like this flies. Yes, he may be a good guy, well liked, represent a well known company, and so on....BUT...A reality check is in order here.
Kevin
It's my understanding that the wheels have already been put into motion by others not associated with this thread as far as this persons waiver is concerned. The outcome will be determined by the AMA as it is in their hands. If they choose to sit on it then it will be their responsibility if or when something serious happens.
Safety is OUR responsibility!!! Our entire way of modeling is at stake EVERY time a turbine powered model leaves the runway. Forums like this ARE necessary for discussions such as this. Gordon, how would you like it if this person showed up at YOUR event, attempted to fly, crashed, and hurt someone or destroyed a great deal of property??? Even worse, you did not know about this person due to a moderator killing a thread in this forum. Gordon, this guys' flying really needs to be re-evaluated and EVERYONE needs a heads up when a guy like this flies. Yes, he may be a good guy, well liked, represent a well known company, and so on....BUT...A reality check is in order here.
Kevin
10-07-2003, 10:07 PM
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RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IMHO, this incident doesn't seem to be just a piloting ability issue. Was that the first flight of this model? If so, it's a direct violation of #1 in the AMA Safety Code. But that is a practice that occurs frequently at rallies, and in fact has been reported on and applauded in this forum.
Sorry if I offend some, but here's another opinion. Until the jet community WILL in fact police itself regarding Safety Code violations, these "accidents" WILL continue.
Sorry if I offend some, but here's another opinion. Until the jet community WILL in fact police itself regarding Safety Code violations, these "accidents" WILL continue.
10-07-2003, 10:14 PM
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RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gordon,
All of us have doen stupid things. All of us have crashed airplanes. All of us have at one point or another needed a slap on the hands from our buddies. But when those slaps on the hand are ignored, when it is so painfully obvious to EVERYONE around that an individuals flying skills are not up to snuff yet that individual keeps ignoring the warnings it's time for the rest of us to act. I don't know about you but I have a real passion for this hobby. My jets are very important to me and I throughly enjoy the time I get to spend at an event with the wonderfull people that I have met over the years at the events, and through these internet forums. If I did not have the concern that my hobby is in jeopardy I would not be so adament about this individuals lack of piloting skills. Maybe it is time that we as a group insist that EVERYONE needs to become re certified every year, maybe we need to insure that the guy flying 10 turbine flights a year has the proficiency to continue on in with the same types of restirctions as the guys that fly 500+ flights a year. If people like myself, or Dean Wichman, or Kevin, or yourself for that matter don't take a stand for safety who will??? Should we just sweep a guy like this under the rug and say Oh well.....he didn;t kill anyone this time and he's got plenty of money, he can get another plane and maybe he will fly it better next time. In four flights that I have seen him fly in the last year all four of them have resulted in a crashed airplane. It's time for a wakeup call.
David Reid
All of us have doen stupid things. All of us have crashed airplanes. All of us have at one point or another needed a slap on the hands from our buddies. But when those slaps on the hand are ignored, when it is so painfully obvious to EVERYONE around that an individuals flying skills are not up to snuff yet that individual keeps ignoring the warnings it's time for the rest of us to act. I don't know about you but I have a real passion for this hobby. My jets are very important to me and I throughly enjoy the time I get to spend at an event with the wonderfull people that I have met over the years at the events, and through these internet forums. If I did not have the concern that my hobby is in jeopardy I would not be so adament about this individuals lack of piloting skills. Maybe it is time that we as a group insist that EVERYONE needs to become re certified every year, maybe we need to insure that the guy flying 10 turbine flights a year has the proficiency to continue on in with the same types of restirctions as the guys that fly 500+ flights a year. If people like myself, or Dean Wichman, or Kevin, or yourself for that matter don't take a stand for safety who will??? Should we just sweep a guy like this under the rug and say Oh well.....he didn;t kill anyone this time and he's got plenty of money, he can get another plane and maybe he will fly it better next time. In four flights that I have seen him fly in the last year all four of them have resulted in a crashed airplane. It's time for a wakeup call.
David Reid
10-07-2003, 10:19 PM
#13
RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tony,
No offense taken!!! You are 100% correct with your statements concerning first flights. I honestly do believe that we do police ourselves....However, we are grown men here. Whatever happened to personal integrity (sp?), character and honesty??? Misrepresenting an aircraft as having been previously flown (ie., lying) is subjecting yourself to a HUGE liability.
Gordon,
I've poured over David Reid's post in the Viper thread and cannot find anywhere David called this guy any names....Yes, David was direct and to the point but I saw no name calling. He reported facts and did state his opinion concerning this persons flying ability but i didn't see any name calling. Please elaborate....
Kevin
No offense taken!!! You are 100% correct with your statements concerning first flights. I honestly do believe that we do police ourselves....However, we are grown men here. Whatever happened to personal integrity (sp?), character and honesty??? Misrepresenting an aircraft as having been previously flown (ie., lying) is subjecting yourself to a HUGE liability.
Gordon,
I've poured over David Reid's post in the Viper thread and cannot find anywhere David called this guy any names....Yes, David was direct and to the point but I saw no name calling. He reported facts and did state his opinion concerning this persons flying ability but i didn't see any name calling. Please elaborate....
Kevin
10-07-2003, 10:24 PM
#14
RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
David, I've been suggesting for over a year that pilots have recertification. There are many turbine waiver holders out there that have not flown a turbine powered aircraft (not one flight) in over a year. Who's to say that their skill level is up to snuff.
Also, if it's been over a year, it's likely that the model they fly next is going to be different (and therefore possibly a maiden). Is it really fair to the rest of us to expect that that pilot will be able to have the reflex's necessary to deal with unknowns?
An example would be vernon's first flight on that bobcat at MS. Had it not been for his skill, that could have been a very dangerous airplane in the hands of someone who had not flown in a year or more.
However, how does a pilot get singled out for the requal? Who signs off on the requal? I'm a big fan of this suggestion.
Sean
Also, if it's been over a year, it's likely that the model they fly next is going to be different (and therefore possibly a maiden). Is it really fair to the rest of us to expect that that pilot will be able to have the reflex's necessary to deal with unknowns?
An example would be vernon's first flight on that bobcat at MS. Had it not been for his skill, that could have been a very dangerous airplane in the hands of someone who had not flown in a year or more.
However, how does a pilot get singled out for the requal? Who signs off on the requal? I'm a big fan of this suggestion.
Sean
10-07-2003, 10:39 PM
#16
RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sean,
I would guess that requalifying would have to take place much like the steps it took to initially get waivered. For many , this would be a major pain....But, if you really want to fly turbines, perhaps this is what it may take. FWIW, I have seen very few pilots that I would question. For safety's sake it is up to ALL of us to police, coach, and encourage each other. No one likes to single out an individual, but if it must be done then be man enough to do it!!! The lives and safety of you, your family, and fellow modelers may be at stake. I SHUDDER at the thought of taking my family to a Jet Event and have something catastrophic happen to my little boy, and/or my wife. Think about THAT potential to you and your's at a rally. It's real....And it's there!!! Time to get our heads out of the sand and do some things constructive to remedy this problem.....
Kevin
I would guess that requalifying would have to take place much like the steps it took to initially get waivered. For many , this would be a major pain....But, if you really want to fly turbines, perhaps this is what it may take. FWIW, I have seen very few pilots that I would question. For safety's sake it is up to ALL of us to police, coach, and encourage each other. No one likes to single out an individual, but if it must be done then be man enough to do it!!! The lives and safety of you, your family, and fellow modelers may be at stake. I SHUDDER at the thought of taking my family to a Jet Event and have something catastrophic happen to my little boy, and/or my wife. Think about THAT potential to you and your's at a rally. It's real....And it's there!!! Time to get our heads out of the sand and do some things constructive to remedy this problem.....
Kevin
10-07-2003, 10:45 PM
#17
RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I won't take my son, or any children to Jet Events. They simply don't have the sense to move out of the way if something is coming at them. We all have seen radio failure, control surface failure. When these things come down, there is nothing to do but run if it's coming at you.
To have a pilot out there that has a perfectly good airplane, and people are running, that's not fair.
If you're burning 30 flights at an event and three of those flights you dumb thumb over the flight line (at a substantial altitude) or some other move that was uncalled for, I can see that, no one flies perfect.
I wasn't there, but putting an airplane into the tent area that has no "issues" is another good example as to why I have the "no kids" policy.
Sean
To have a pilot out there that has a perfectly good airplane, and people are running, that's not fair.
If you're burning 30 flights at an event and three of those flights you dumb thumb over the flight line (at a substantial altitude) or some other move that was uncalled for, I can see that, no one flies perfect.
I wasn't there, but putting an airplane into the tent area that has no "issues" is another good example as to why I have the "no kids" policy.
Sean
10-07-2003, 10:48 PM
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RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sean,
The requalification issue has been brought up in several proposals that the JPO has taken to the AMA.
Also with regards to Vernon's maiden flight on his Bobcat that took place before the event started. MS afterburner is not a sanctioned event until Saturday and Sunday.
Tony,
Are you trying to say you have NEVER flown a maiden flight on an airplane at an event?
What better place to fly a maiden than at an event before, or after the offical hours? Fire fighting equipment is on site, experienced modellers are there to look the airplane over. COme to think of it the new provisional turbine waiver rule actually could not exsit if you could NOT test fly an airplane prior to event times.
The requalification issue has been brought up in several proposals that the JPO has taken to the AMA.
Also with regards to Vernon's maiden flight on his Bobcat that took place before the event started. MS afterburner is not a sanctioned event until Saturday and Sunday.
Tony,
Are you trying to say you have NEVER flown a maiden flight on an airplane at an event?
What better place to fly a maiden than at an event before, or after the offical hours? Fire fighting equipment is on site, experienced modellers are there to look the airplane over. COme to think of it the new provisional turbine waiver rule actually could not exsit if you could NOT test fly an airplane prior to event times.
10-07-2003, 10:53 PM
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RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK Guys, once again a thread has lost its appeal due to OVERKILL!!! I have read the last few posts and you are all repeating yourselves over and over to try to convince others to agree with you. We all know safety is a big issue in this hobby and I think we all take it very seriously. Therefore, we do not need HALL MONITORS to search for and destroy pilots THEY feel in THEIR OPINION are not proficient. I have seen this guy test fly his own product for customers (both ducted fan and turbine) with no problems. Also he had several successful flights this year at Florida Jets. I know he is not the only pilot who has had a few bad crashes. So why is he being singled out? A lot of you need to take a look in the mirror and review your own crashes, how would your record stand up to the scrutiny you are putting on his flight history?
BVM followers are always the first to criticize other pilots, especially when they are not flying BVM planes.
Let's leave the rule making and the judgments to the AMA.
BVM followers are always the first to criticize other pilots, especially when they are not flying BVM planes.
Let's leave the rule making and the judgments to the AMA.
10-07-2003, 10:54 PM
#20
RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't mean to infer that Vernon's flight happened during the jet event, I personally don't care about that issue or rule, I agree that there is no better a time than at an event to test fly an airplane (unless you believe something could happen and then it might be better to do it where there's no witness to the carnage LOL) But that's another story..........................
10-07-2003, 10:55 PM
#21
RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
David,
I have maidened models prior to, or after hours at an event. You're right...Several eyes to spot what you may have missed could save your plane!!!! I think what Tony was driving at was that having a maiden in the middle of the event during the "official" time is a no-no.
Kevin
Unknown....HUH???? Who said anything about BVM???? I guess you have nothing constructive to add so you grasp at straws??? Do you have something against BVM??? It is obvious that you weren't at Superman so go troll somewhere else...
I have maidened models prior to, or after hours at an event. You're right...Several eyes to spot what you may have missed could save your plane!!!! I think what Tony was driving at was that having a maiden in the middle of the event during the "official" time is a no-no.
Kevin
Unknown....HUH???? Who said anything about BVM???? I guess you have nothing constructive to add so you grasp at straws??? Do you have something against BVM??? It is obvious that you weren't at Superman so go troll somewhere else...
10-07-2003, 11:01 PM
#22
RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unknown, I don't own a single BVM product, my opinion is it's totally overrated [this is an edit, It's not necessarily that I think it's overrated, it might be more that they don't have any airplanes that I think are worth the bling bling they charge, just my opinion] (although the quality out of the molds that I've seen is really really good).
Wait, I take that back, I have a set of BVM wheels and brakes, they were so problematic, they are sitting in a dwarer somewhere in my shop. They came with a package retract deal I bought, I did give them a shot.
That being said, I only met the guy one time, and I got the feeling he wasn't qualified as well. It has nothing to do with "bvm followers", it has everything to do with putting a "good flying model" into the tent area.
Take that FWIW.
Sean
Wait, I take that back, I have a set of BVM wheels and brakes, they were so problematic, they are sitting in a dwarer somewhere in my shop. They came with a package retract deal I bought, I did give them a shot.
That being said, I only met the guy one time, and I got the feeling he wasn't qualified as well. It has nothing to do with "bvm followers", it has everything to do with putting a "good flying model" into the tent area.
Take that FWIW.
Sean
10-07-2003, 11:03 PM
#23
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RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kevin,
Sorry - my mistake on how I phrased it... I meant the fact that David called him incompetent ... not really a "name", but the same effect IMO.
As for your scenarioo about this guy flying at my event because I didn't know about him... please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't this same discussion about this same guy come up last year ? If that's the case, and this guy is truly dangerous, then why didn't you, David, or anyone else do something to prevent him from flying at Superman (or anywhere else) this year ? Why did you wait for yet another crash to happen ? We've basically all agreed that safety is everyone's responsibility, right - so if you guys knew he was unsafe and didn't stop him, then what does that say about taking that responsibility seriously ? If you guys won't stop him from flying at a huge event like Superman where there are tons of people who could get hurt, why do you expect me to stop him from flying at a teeny little event in my small club ?
I know that the qbove could well be taken as "hostile", but that's not what is intended - all I'm trying to do is point out what I see as logical inconsistencies in the argument here.
David et al - I'm all for hashing out ideas like re-certifying people (as long as it is manageable!!), and / or for having a system whereby complaints can be lodged to the JPO or AMA for investigation (kinda like the "how's my driving?" stickers on trucks ?
) ... coming up with ideas like this can a constructive way of dealing with the problem, and I'll happily join in with any such ideas. I just would like to see that we are addressing the wider saftey concern rather than possibly vilifying a single individual.
You may wonder why I am taking this position ... well, it just so happens that I know a (different) individual who was barred from an event a while ago, supposedly on the word of an individual who didn't like him, and who told the event organiser that he was unsafe and should be banned. From the flying that I have seen that guy do, he's no Jason Somes, but he seems perfectly capable and it was simply a personality clash that led to the incident. While that may not be the case in this incident, that experience made me want a better, consistent, way of dealing with percieved safty issues - one that is fair to both the complainant and the subject of the complaint.
I'm glad to hear that there is some discussion on this subject already going on at JPO / AMA, because if all we were doing was wagging our chins in here then that would be singularly unproductive.
Later,
Gordon
Sorry - my mistake on how I phrased it... I meant the fact that David called him incompetent ... not really a "name", but the same effect IMO.
As for your scenarioo about this guy flying at my event because I didn't know about him... please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't this same discussion about this same guy come up last year ? If that's the case, and this guy is truly dangerous, then why didn't you, David, or anyone else do something to prevent him from flying at Superman (or anywhere else) this year ? Why did you wait for yet another crash to happen ? We've basically all agreed that safety is everyone's responsibility, right - so if you guys knew he was unsafe and didn't stop him, then what does that say about taking that responsibility seriously ? If you guys won't stop him from flying at a huge event like Superman where there are tons of people who could get hurt, why do you expect me to stop him from flying at a teeny little event in my small club ?
I know that the qbove could well be taken as "hostile", but that's not what is intended - all I'm trying to do is point out what I see as logical inconsistencies in the argument here.
David et al - I'm all for hashing out ideas like re-certifying people (as long as it is manageable!!), and / or for having a system whereby complaints can be lodged to the JPO or AMA for investigation (kinda like the "how's my driving?" stickers on trucks ?
) ... coming up with ideas like this can a constructive way of dealing with the problem, and I'll happily join in with any such ideas. I just would like to see that we are addressing the wider saftey concern rather than possibly vilifying a single individual.You may wonder why I am taking this position ... well, it just so happens that I know a (different) individual who was barred from an event a while ago, supposedly on the word of an individual who didn't like him, and who told the event organiser that he was unsafe and should be banned. From the flying that I have seen that guy do, he's no Jason Somes, but he seems perfectly capable and it was simply a personality clash that led to the incident. While that may not be the case in this incident, that experience made me want a better, consistent, way of dealing with percieved safty issues - one that is fair to both the complainant and the subject of the complaint.
I'm glad to hear that there is some discussion on this subject already going on at JPO / AMA, because if all we were doing was wagging our chins in here then that would be singularly unproductive.
Later,
Gordon
10-07-2003, 11:16 PM
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RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unknown,
Sorry dude but that individual had I believe Steve Elias flying his models for him at Florida Jets. After he was reprimanded by a well known modeller for flying over the pits not once but several times at Florida International Jet Rally last year.
I have no reason to single out ANYONE because they don't fly BVM products, I choose to fly BVM jets but that is my decision. If you want to fly an XYZ jet and can do it safely I have no bone to pick with you but if you constantly drill your XYZ jet into the ground every tiem you fly you have no business flying your XYZ jet or ANY other jet including a BVM jet. For what it is worth this guy flew a BVM T-33 into the ground a couple of years ago as well.
I have no personal vendetta against the man, I wish he could improve his skills and fly with the rest of us. He just needs more stick time with something a little less high performance before stepping back up to the flight line with a jet.
Gordon,
By the time that this individual was up at the flightline with his model it was too late to intervene. Besides all this occured shortly after 7 AM Satruday morning. Jerry had not arrived yet.
Sorry dude but that individual had I believe Steve Elias flying his models for him at Florida Jets. After he was reprimanded by a well known modeller for flying over the pits not once but several times at Florida International Jet Rally last year.
I have no reason to single out ANYONE because they don't fly BVM products, I choose to fly BVM jets but that is my decision. If you want to fly an XYZ jet and can do it safely I have no bone to pick with you but if you constantly drill your XYZ jet into the ground every tiem you fly you have no business flying your XYZ jet or ANY other jet including a BVM jet. For what it is worth this guy flew a BVM T-33 into the ground a couple of years ago as well.
I have no personal vendetta against the man, I wish he could improve his skills and fly with the rest of us. He just needs more stick time with something a little less high performance before stepping back up to the flight line with a jet.
Gordon,
By the time that this individual was up at the flightline with his model it was too late to intervene. Besides all this occured shortly after 7 AM Satruday morning. Jerry had not arrived yet.
10-07-2003, 11:19 PM
#25
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Orlando,
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RE: Get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kevin,
The "BVM Followers" know who they are. The rest of the comments are strictly opinions. I have seen enough personal grudges turn into personal attacks disquised as "Protecting our hobby forums" to know them when I see them. Rest assured, I will always have something constructive to say, you just need to learn how to recognize the truth behind the words. Stop following your friends and think for yourself.
BTW - Did you take that look into your own flight past?
The "BVM Followers" know who they are. The rest of the comments are strictly opinions. I have seen enough personal grudges turn into personal attacks disquised as "Protecting our hobby forums" to know them when I see them. Rest assured, I will always have something constructive to say, you just need to learn how to recognize the truth behind the words. Stop following your friends and think for yourself.
BTW - Did you take that look into your own flight past?