FreedomFlier

My Feedback: (8)

Who is installing (or installed) smoke on their 28%? What system did you use? How did you counter CG changes from the install.

I am installing a B&B system and am looking for Ideas. [8D]

Pictures would help too.

I'll share my pics when I get it done.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I used a TME system in my Edge. Two 24oz tanks, laid on their sides in the fuse and bottom to bottom in the middle fits the fuse plate perfectly.

I had to make a ply plate that mounted in the box just behind the engine to mount the pump. It was spaced high enough that the ignition battery could still be mounted underneath it. The plate had a tongue that ran back a bit into the tank area so the pump could be half in and half out of the box. I had the servo battery mounted at the back of the firewall just above the landing gear plate.

Moving one battery pack (one for receiver) back to the servo mounting plate negated most, if not all of the changes in the planes empty weight. If you are using a separate battery for the smoke system, you might attach it to the top of the smoke tank. Filling the smoke tank will bring it in nose heavy. Mine ended up about 3/8 of an inch behind the suggested C/G, empty.

Note that I was running 4 servos in the tail. You won't come in at the lighter flying weights if you install a smoke system, but the plane doesn't seem to notice the extra weight, except in pulling out of a hover. It will still do it, but it requires a little finesse.

Sorry I can't help with pics[&o]

FreedomFlier

My Feedback: (8)

Thanks Silversurfer.

What engine are you running?

Here is my Combo:

Brison 3.2, w/Abell muffler, 1650 4-cell ign pack
HS-81MG (T)
HS-5945MG (A,E)
DS8611 (R)

Rudder servo is in tail.
NiMH 2700 "A" size, 5-cell pack on aft side of servo tray
JR R770 PMC RX.

Now, my CG is right were I want it... 0 elevator correction needs to be made when I go inverted.

I weighted my B&B system last night. It is 9.4 Oz. (this includes an additional HS-81) Of course, this gear will need to be as close to the engine as possible for functionality reasons.

I guess, I'll try it. Install it, and if I don't like it, I can always take it off right...[:-]

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

The engine was also a Brison 3.2, but an older version. The only differences between the new and old 3.2 Brisons' are the the old version has a blue anodized crankcase and the backplate is not recessed into the engine. Used a Bisson Pitts side mount muffler

Servos are 5945 on elevators and ailerons. 8611s' on rudder. Hitec mini servo on throttle. No choke servo.

Duralite 4400 mAh servo battery, Duralite 2400 mAh ignition battery. Both have regulators. 600 mAh JR Rx battery. The Duralites are nice, but they have their down sides like anything else. Mostly in price and system complexity.

It sounds like you have the plane set up well! No change when inverted is nice

You may end up going with another battery to run the smoke pump. I don't know the B&B system. If you do, a small 600 mAh 4.8 volt that comes with most radios will work fine. They are a pain to set up that way, though.

Be sure you use the neoprene hose for the last part of the smoke oil pipe run to the muffler. Tygon tubing melts[&o] I kinda like the SuperDri smoke oil. Others have different preferences.

After flying both the Edge and the 300S, I KNOW you gotta love that plane!

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

keep us posted on how it all works out

FreedomFlier

My Feedback: (8)

Well, I'll get install pics later, but here is an air shot.

The CG turned out all right. It still floats in and needs very little push inverted.

I believe going to an 8 pitch prop will help landing. Can seem to get the idle low enough.

astro

This ? is not about smoke, (I went with slimline showtime smoke pump) but, why are so many of the 50 cc gas users going with a 24 oz. tank for gas and smoke? I have been runing a BME 50cc and custom 60cc BME gaser for over a year with 20 oz. for fuel and 16 oz. for smoke. With about a 15 min. flight , still have over 1/4 of a tank left over. With smoke , and on/off usage, get around 12 min. of good show time. Do some of the motor use that much fuel or are they haling around a extra 6-10 oz. of weight for balance?
ASTRO

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

1) You don't have to fill the tanks.

2) It's nice to have a fuel reserve if you do fill the tank.

3) The 24 oz. gas tank comes with the hardware kit.

4) The 24oz. smoke tank is a nearly perfect fit alongside the gas tank.

5) Guessing the amount of smoke fluid needed is usually determined AFTER installing the tank and system. Refine from there.

6) A lot of people have never done a smoke system before, and are therefore cautious and consertive..

7) Just 'cause.

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

astro i to run 16 oz tanks on my gasser, i did pick up a used gasers that has a 20 oz tank on the 500cc motor. i run an 8oz tank on my rcs 1.4 and may go smaller as it will do 15 minutes on easy on 8 oz...

FreedomFlier

My Feedback: (8)

This is good discussion.

I too went to a 16oz tank, (from a 24 oz tank), in my 4.2 powered Stinger. Smoke tank is 10 OZ. By the time I exhaust all of my smoke, I am usually ready to land anyhow, with ~half a tank of gas.

For the WH, I rotated the vent tube 90 degree to horizontal position, effectively reducing the amount of fuel I take on, and of course wing loading. I'm guessing about it has ~18oz is the capacity. Smoke tank is 12 oz.

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

i tried a 22 x 8 mejzlik on the brison today loved this prop i had a bambula 22 x 8 on there. i will stay the mejzlik or menz line up. the brisons pulls much better on those 2 props......

i have a smoke system lying around should i do it?

i am in the process of moving my CG back somemore i think its around 3.25 or so i am also going to move my tank close to be on the center of the tube i will keep you all posted....

astro

Go with the smoke, always looks great on a clear blue sky. Gave up on my new slimline smoke pump (safety system keep locking out). Put in a old TME I had works great. With the custom canister muffler system I made, drop the smoke oil (oz. per min. down)down and great great smoke.
ASTRO

flatlandmike

My Feedback: (17)

Where did you get your curved C/F gear and what size is it[8D]

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

astro how much quieter is that muffler set up did you also pick up some rpm as cans do? what prop r u running?

astro

This gear was custom made for me by Graphtech for the W.H. 300 Special and works great. I gave them the stock size and told them it was for a 22 # plane. Mine came in around 16# 5oz. w/smoke system. They have it for sale on their web site, www.graphtechrc.com for around $50.00. It is 1/2" taller then stock for extra prop clearance. On the muffler system, I used a ( DA150 header from T.B. , and made the rest with baffles ) I did lose about 100-150 rpm over the stock, side (noise[:'(]) muffler but did lose about 15-18 db with a much deeper sounding pitch. The prop is a Mejzlik 23x8 @ 7,300 on the ground. Could have gone with the 24x8 @ around (est.)7,000 rpm. I try a 22x8 APC, Bolley, and Mejzlik, but all were over 8,000 rpm on the ground and very noise in the air at wide open (bark [:@]). Tryed a 24x8 MSC wide blade, but could only get around 6,200rpm. Motor sound was great , but the rev. were a little low for me and from idle to top rpm was a little slow.
ASTRO

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

astro that is great i tried the mcs prop last week on a brison it was very quiet but took me to 6300 22 x 8 and that is out of my rec powerband of 6500-7500. i have like the 22 x 8 menz and mejzlik the most on the brison 3.2....i love a can plane[8D]