fiber classics 330L 33% ARF
08-07-2002, 08:46 AM
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fiber classics 330L 33% ARF
Is there anyone who has the fiberclassics kit 330L arf
it would be nice to know how the quality is and what kind of gear is needed for it.
it would be nice to know how the quality is and what kind of gear is needed for it.
08-07-2002, 12:09 PM
#2
I just built one.
Basically, it's a smaller version of the 40% except it's now made in Taiwan and I think has lost a touch of quality.
Before I list the things I did not like, here is a basic overview.
You will need a motor (DA100/3W100 are perfect choices), 9 servos (one each elevator, two rudder, two per aileron, I used S9151s + 9602 for throttle). It's set-up to use a canister muffler, but you will have to build a box for the spars to protect them from the heat. It's a days job but not difficult. The spar box gave a nice place on which to mount the fuel/smoke tanks, smoke pump plate. A little ducting to help pass the hot air under the box and out the vent holes is a good idea. Add a 4.5 inch spinner and your favorite servo power distribution block (easier than ganging receivers), a few odds and ends like wheels, tail wheel set-up, tanks, fuel line, and that's about it.
Overall, the airplane goes together in about 20-30 hours minus things that I had to correct.
It flies great. It looks good in the air. At the price I payed I think it was well worth it. Also, it balanced great without jamming batteries into impossible locations.
Several things, however, do not meet the original's quality.
1. The stab tubed. I had to cut the factory installed out and replace it because the stabs and wings were not parallel. I also had to adjust the incidence between the two stabs by about .75 degrees. A little JB weld and a file made it an easy job.
2. Although it may be the lightest way to paint an airplane, the finish will never win any quality contests. FiberClassics has a neat explaination, however, to make you feel good about the seam down the middle and the unmatching lines between cowl and fuselage. OK, it's a great flying airplane. Avoid that complaint by purchasing the white version and finishing it yourself.
3. I had to bush the control horns for a tight control set-up. The holes where drilled a hair to big. I used a little JB weld and little circles of 5mm/.3mm epoxy laminate to make for a very tight set-up.
4. On this airplane it was impossible to get the amount of aileron throw recommended by the manual. However, there is really plenty of throw anyway to perform all of the silly stuff you could ever desire.
5. The forward wing incidence and locking pin (dual purpose) on the right wing came unglued during the first flight almost causing a disaster. The gluing, although seemingly adequate, was not very well done. There was only a large fillet and no glue on the barbed portion of the pin. Again, JP weld fixed all.
6. The biggest disappointment is the right wing. It seems as though a little airleron trim will always be needed because there is .5 degree washout on the right wing.
Hope this helps.
Mark
Before I list the things I did not like, here is a basic overview.
You will need a motor (DA100/3W100 are perfect choices), 9 servos (one each elevator, two rudder, two per aileron, I used S9151s + 9602 for throttle). It's set-up to use a canister muffler, but you will have to build a box for the spars to protect them from the heat. It's a days job but not difficult. The spar box gave a nice place on which to mount the fuel/smoke tanks, smoke pump plate. A little ducting to help pass the hot air under the box and out the vent holes is a good idea. Add a 4.5 inch spinner and your favorite servo power distribution block (easier than ganging receivers), a few odds and ends like wheels, tail wheel set-up, tanks, fuel line, and that's about it.
Overall, the airplane goes together in about 20-30 hours minus things that I had to correct.
It flies great. It looks good in the air. At the price I payed I think it was well worth it. Also, it balanced great without jamming batteries into impossible locations.
Several things, however, do not meet the original's quality.
1. The stab tubed. I had to cut the factory installed out and replace it because the stabs and wings were not parallel. I also had to adjust the incidence between the two stabs by about .75 degrees. A little JB weld and a file made it an easy job.
2. Although it may be the lightest way to paint an airplane, the finish will never win any quality contests. FiberClassics has a neat explaination, however, to make you feel good about the seam down the middle and the unmatching lines between cowl and fuselage. OK, it's a great flying airplane. Avoid that complaint by purchasing the white version and finishing it yourself.
3. I had to bush the control horns for a tight control set-up. The holes where drilled a hair to big. I used a little JB weld and little circles of 5mm/.3mm epoxy laminate to make for a very tight set-up.
4. On this airplane it was impossible to get the amount of aileron throw recommended by the manual. However, there is really plenty of throw anyway to perform all of the silly stuff you could ever desire.
5. The forward wing incidence and locking pin (dual purpose) on the right wing came unglued during the first flight almost causing a disaster. The gluing, although seemingly adequate, was not very well done. There was only a large fillet and no glue on the barbed portion of the pin. Again, JP weld fixed all.
6. The biggest disappointment is the right wing. It seems as though a little airleron trim will always be needed because there is .5 degree washout on the right wing.
Hope this helps.
Mark
08-08-2002, 01:53 PM
#7
fiber classics 330L 33% ARF
No the 3w 100 is 7.5 inches long and the firewall to the front of the cowl is only 6.7 inches
I really wished that they would have used doulbe control horns like the 40% uses. The single phenolic control horn seems a little weak. But as they say in the instruction. It is a proven design and does not need to be strengthened.
My plane is finished and waiting for the motor and it only wieghs 16 lbs. I am very happy with that.
I really wished that they would have used doulbe control horns like the 40% uses. The single phenolic control horn seems a little weak. But as they say in the instruction. It is a proven design and does not need to be strengthened.
My plane is finished and waiting for the motor and it only wieghs 16 lbs. I am very happy with that.
08-08-2002, 05:44 PM
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fiber classics 330L 33% ARF
why the hell do they then recommend 3w 100ccm engine if it doesnt fit in the cowl. that i don't understand
what engine should fit inside without major destruction of the
firewall.
what engine should fit inside without major destruction of the
firewall.
08-10-2002, 01:24 AM
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fiber classics 330L 33% ARF
It's not set up specifically for the DA, you have to use 4 or 5 washers to space the engine out. I thought this was so the 3W would fit.
Tracy Hill
Tracy Hill
08-10-2002, 11:33 AM
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fiber classics 330L 33% ARF
From the Fiber Classics site:
Engines:
The FiberClassics Extra 330L 2.6m is made for 100 cc flat twin engines, such as DA100 or 3W 100. But it is powered very well with a 75 cc single, or 70-80 cc twins of older style. The light weight construction will even allow G-62s, if it is sport flying what you would like to do.
For the 100 cc engines we have a perfectly set up 2-in-1 Minipipe muffler system, for all who have to take care their neighbors. It leaves the engine enough to breath, even increases power, although the noise reduction is outrageous.
We also supply handcrafted G-Force Composite props (28x10 and 28x12)
The FiberClassics Extra 330L 2.6m is made for 100 cc flat twin engines, such as DA100 or 3W 100. But it is powered very well with a 75 cc single, or 70-80 cc twins of older style. The light weight construction will even allow G-62s, if it is sport flying what you would like to do.
For the 100 cc engines we have a perfectly set up 2-in-1 Minipipe muffler system, for all who have to take care their neighbors. It leaves the engine enough to breath, even increases power, although the noise reduction is outrageous.
We also supply handcrafted G-Force Composite props (28x10 and 28x12)
08-11-2002, 01:45 PM
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3W 85 works
I just finished one for a friend. We used a 3W 85 perfect fit. I had to carve the cowl to fit the Johnson smoke mufflers but it looks OK. Although I have some problems with the kit, I have too say it flies great. We came in at 27lb. with the addition of smoke.
The two flights I had on this plane we had it under propped but it still had plenty of power, and landing it was sweet. After changing to a 26/10 it was flown by another guy and this plane did a maneuver I had never seen before (I can only describe it as a climbing vertical snap ). This guys landing sucked and he bounced it pretty hard. The 4th flight the same guy flew again and the motor seemed to get more power every flight. When we were putting it up (Hanging in the LHS where we were flying it) the owner who never flew it noticed the main gear was broken, delimiting at the bottom and cracked at the top.
Its is sad the owner hates broken planes and this one may never be flown again.
The two flights I had on this plane we had it under propped but it still had plenty of power, and landing it was sweet. After changing to a 26/10 it was flown by another guy and this plane did a maneuver I had never seen before (I can only describe it as a climbing vertical snap ). This guys landing sucked and he bounced it pretty hard. The 4th flight the same guy flew again and the motor seemed to get more power every flight. When we were putting it up (Hanging in the LHS where we were flying it) the owner who never flew it noticed the main gear was broken, delimiting at the bottom and cracked at the top.
Its is sad the owner hates broken planes and this one may never be flown again.
08-11-2002, 06:13 PM
#18
Almost a disaster today.
The one I prepared suffered from almost catastrophic elevator flutter today. We have not identified the root cause yet. The servos are S9151s and the linkage is rock solid, and beyond that, flutter becomes an aerodynamic problem.
Tomorrow I shall look closely at the stab sockets. We may have to place some lead into the counterbalance. I hope that this particular model is not representative of the entire line of 33% Extras. Many small, minor problems are slowly adding up.
Me, I'm going to go ahead and order the ZN 2.5 meter Kevlar/CF Extra. More conventional but the alignments, fitting, and finishing are up to me. The big minus is the plus 150-200 hours needed to finish it.
I wish everyone luck with your FC. If everything is working well it is a great airplane (quite obviously from it's contest standing at the TOC, a very high placement at 3rd)
Mark
Tomorrow I shall look closely at the stab sockets. We may have to place some lead into the counterbalance. I hope that this particular model is not representative of the entire line of 33% Extras. Many small, minor problems are slowly adding up.
Me, I'm going to go ahead and order the ZN 2.5 meter Kevlar/CF Extra. More conventional but the alignments, fitting, and finishing are up to me. The big minus is the plus 150-200 hours needed to finish it.
I wish everyone luck with your FC. If everything is working well it is a great airplane (quite obviously from it's contest standing at the TOC, a very high placement at 3rd)
Mark
08-12-2002, 01:57 PM
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fiber classics 330L 33% ARF
Are there any others out there who had the problems that MarkNovac had with the stab. incidence and control horn holes too big?
Would someone not mind taking pictures of their canister setup and posting them?
How would the majority of you rate the building process, fairly easy if all goes well, or a bit tricky and more difficult?
I have been thinking about one of these and this post is very helpful.
Craig
Would someone not mind taking pictures of their canister setup and posting them?
How would the majority of you rate the building process, fairly easy if all goes well, or a bit tricky and more difficult?
I have been thinking about one of these and this post is very helpful.
Craig
08-12-2002, 07:28 PM
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fiber classics 330L 33% ARF
Here's my setup.
DA-100
Hitec 5945's
Overall, Same as 40% as far as construction with the exception of the wing spar system and the 1 piece cowl. Servo's are also much easier to access (because of the servo hatches).
Stab incidence was off considerable (pretty intolerable if you consider the "Quality" of the kit). Probably 5/8 to 3/4 of an inch at the extents. Visible via the naked eye wrong.
Landing Gear is Bad. Of the 30 flights, every landing has been greased and the gear still delaminated.
Canopy and canopy frame is also a pain. The frame is very flimsy and to get things to fit properly is a challange at best.
Weight came in at 23.5 lbs with stock mufflers.
Typical Fiberclassics construction. Glass over 2mm hard foam which is very easy to damage if your not extremely careful. If you put a ding in it, it's there for life. Also, as previously mentioned, many of the seams are of ?? quality. Of course, according to the manual this is a mark of quality...NOT!!!
Now, saying all of that, there's no argument as to the flight performance. Very easy to fly. Good 3D although waterfalls don't seem to be clicking on this bird as well as the 40%, It has a tendency to fly the waterfall as opposed to get the hard stall/snap that should be there. Some of this could still be because of the stab incidence which we opted not to remove for now. Harriers and High Alpha rock and roll a bit although dragging the rudder a bit (Just leaning on the stick) seems to stabilize it considerably.
Of course, this is only my opinion and like everything, somebody will have a different one.
Overall, It's hard to beat the performance which makes it worth every penny. If you looking at having an A1 quality showpiece, I believe that most people would be dissappointed.
DA-100
Hitec 5945's
Overall, Same as 40% as far as construction with the exception of the wing spar system and the 1 piece cowl. Servo's are also much easier to access (because of the servo hatches).
Stab incidence was off considerable (pretty intolerable if you consider the "Quality" of the kit). Probably 5/8 to 3/4 of an inch at the extents. Visible via the naked eye wrong.
Landing Gear is Bad. Of the 30 flights, every landing has been greased and the gear still delaminated.
Canopy and canopy frame is also a pain. The frame is very flimsy and to get things to fit properly is a challange at best.
Weight came in at 23.5 lbs with stock mufflers.
Typical Fiberclassics construction. Glass over 2mm hard foam which is very easy to damage if your not extremely careful. If you put a ding in it, it's there for life. Also, as previously mentioned, many of the seams are of ?? quality. Of course, according to the manual this is a mark of quality...NOT!!!
Now, saying all of that, there's no argument as to the flight performance. Very easy to fly. Good 3D although waterfalls don't seem to be clicking on this bird as well as the 40%, It has a tendency to fly the waterfall as opposed to get the hard stall/snap that should be there. Some of this could still be because of the stab incidence which we opted not to remove for now. Harriers and High Alpha rock and roll a bit although dragging the rudder a bit (Just leaning on the stick) seems to stabilize it considerably.
Of course, this is only my opinion and like everything, somebody will have a different one.
Overall, It's hard to beat the performance which makes it worth every penny. If you looking at having an A1 quality showpiece, I believe that most people would be dissappointed.
08-12-2002, 09:01 PM
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fiber classics 330L 33% ARF
I am surprised at the stab. incidence problems. At the price of this kit I would expect it to be right on. This pushes me in the other direction.
Aero, when you said glass over 2mm hard foam, are you talking about the wing construction?
What is the price on the 40% extra's these days?
Aero, when you said glass over 2mm hard foam, are you talking about the wing construction?
What is the price on the 40% extra's these days?
08-12-2002, 09:50 PM
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fiber classics 330L 33% ARF
A good friend of mine had the stab explode on about the 10th flight of his new 40% Fiberclassics Extra. Of course this resulted in complete destruction of his aircraft. The composite airplanes to me are more of a novelty than they are practical. They are very difficult to repair and are like eggshells. I've heard of several cases of the stabs blowing apart. I believe Mike McConville had a similar experience if I remember correctly. I'll take a Radiocraft anyday over one of these overpriced novelties.
08-12-2002, 10:33 PM
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fiber classics 330L 33% ARF
The wing, fuse and stabs are all made of the same construction. Basically, I believe that it's two layers of 2 oz glass over a 2 mm foam then possibly another back of light glass although I'm not sure on that. Of course, the fuse is boned up in the engine compartment area with key area's of kevlar and C/F.
As far as the flutter/destruction of the control surfaces, this model is not designed to be flown on full on throttle as many people do. On the larger 40's, many people tried to put a single digital (180 oz) on the control surface thinking that it would be adequate. It is if you keep your speed down but it's fairly easy to build up oscillation as the precursor to flutter. I went with two 5945's on mine and haven't had any problem although I know others who have.
Last I checked on the 40's the price was in the $3900+paint range although the price may have come down. I haven't checked with Chief Aircraft to see what thier selling for.
As far as being hard to repair, I suppose it depends on what type of damage your talking about. I've destroyed a couple of gears for one reason or another and the plane is still in good shape. Basically, there is some localized fuse damage where the gear reflexed up before breaking but the landing gear plate and everything else is still intact. Certainly, a lot less damage than any conventional airframe I've had.
As far as the flutter/destruction of the control surfaces, this model is not designed to be flown on full on throttle as many people do. On the larger 40's, many people tried to put a single digital (180 oz) on the control surface thinking that it would be adequate. It is if you keep your speed down but it's fairly easy to build up oscillation as the precursor to flutter. I went with two 5945's on mine and haven't had any problem although I know others who have.
Last I checked on the 40's the price was in the $3900+paint range although the price may have come down. I haven't checked with Chief Aircraft to see what thier selling for.
As far as being hard to repair, I suppose it depends on what type of damage your talking about. I've destroyed a couple of gears for one reason or another and the plane is still in good shape. Basically, there is some localized fuse damage where the gear reflexed up before breaking but the landing gear plate and everything else is still intact. Certainly, a lot less damage than any conventional airframe I've had.
08-12-2002, 10:50 PM
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fiber classics 330L 33% ARF
My friend and I are very experienced unlimited class IMAC compeitiors and masters of throttle management. The plane in question had 2 8411s per elevator half, three per aileron, 4 for rudder. The destruction occured during half throttle straight and level flight. Quite disappointing for a supposed world class TOC level airplane. Incidentally, my friend ordered a new one the next day because he loved the way it flew. I'll stick with the wood airframes. Can't afford to replace the composotes.