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How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
10-19-2004, 01:54 PM
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How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
In light of all the talk and discussion about the failure rate of Hitec 5925 and 5945 servos, I think we would all like to know how many people are using these servos in comparison to the JR8611. Also how many people using hitec have had failures. I hope this thread will help me and others with the most important decision of what servos to trust in a $2,000+ airplane.
I have read all the post pertaing to these servo failures, but I'm not real sure on hitec's postion maybe this will help them make on and save us from flushing $$$ down the drain, if that is even the case.
I have read all the post pertaing to these servo failures, but I'm not real sure on hitec's postion maybe this will help them make on and save us from flushing $$$ down the drain, if that is even the case.
10-19-2004, 02:21 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
I wouldn't call it a great debate........It's more like a waste of bandwidth
Kinda like the 3W -vs- DA thing.
Neo
Kinda like the 3W -vs- DA thing.
Neo
10-19-2004, 02:21 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
This is not meant to be a debate, BUT a way to get REAL statistics re-read the 1st post.
10-19-2004, 02:49 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
Yep just another debate....
If JR or Futaba sold as many servos as Hitec, there failure rate would be the same.
If JR or Futaba sold as many servos as Hitec, there failure rate would be the same.
10-19-2004, 02:53 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
ORIGINAL: Mokken
Yep just another debate....
If JR or Futaba sold as many servos as Hitec, there failure rate would be the same.
Yep just another debate....
If JR or Futaba sold as many servos as Hitec, there failure rate would be the same.
I personally use Hitec and have not had one fail, but with so many people claiming to have lost a plan do to some sort of servo failure it makes me wonder.
Also I have been in the hobby for over 20yrs and only used Futaba servos and NEVER had one failure, up until the past few years have I been using Hitec servos only in my planes. In all my helicopter I only trust and use Futaba servos, in that application I have had one failure and that was a JR servo.
10-19-2004, 02:56 PM
#7
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
You have to add to the poll Yes I have had 8411 or 8611 failures if you want to compare relative failure rates across lines
also option 3 doesn't make sense "I use Both Hitec 5945 servos"
also option 3 doesn't make sense "I use Both Hitec 5945 servos"
10-19-2004, 03:02 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
Your poll is skewed......the only option for failures is Hitec....
If I had a Futaba or JR servo fail how am I gonna report it in your poll?
If you want an accurate poll you should have 2 options per brand listed
I use hitec with no failuers
I use hitec and had failures
I use "X" brand with no failures
I use "X" brand and had failures
Neo
If I had a Futaba or JR servo fail how am I gonna report it in your poll?
If you want an accurate poll you should have 2 options per brand listed
I use hitec with no failuers
I use hitec and had failures
I use "X" brand with no failures
I use "X" brand and had failures
Neo
10-19-2004, 03:25 PM
#11
RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
I have:
19 605's
10 5625's
8 5645's
9 5945's
7 5735's
All are in H9 cap 232, 2 H9 sukhoi's, 2.6m composite arf extra, 3m composite arf extra, 39% aeroworks edge, fiberclassics kangaroo jet, composite arf eurosport jet
No Failures
also have:
6 4721's
in a byron christen eagle and fiberclassics kangaroo
and 8 futaba servos (misc) in a byron corsair!
No Failures
19 605's
10 5625's
8 5645's
9 5945's
7 5735's
All are in H9 cap 232, 2 H9 sukhoi's, 2.6m composite arf extra, 3m composite arf extra, 39% aeroworks edge, fiberclassics kangaroo jet, composite arf eurosport jet
No Failures
also have:
6 4721's
in a byron christen eagle and fiberclassics kangaroo
and 8 futaba servos (misc) in a byron corsair!
No Failures
10-19-2004, 03:43 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
What would be useful is to look at a Hitec, Futaba, and JR comparable digital servo and compare total sales versus total failures. Until any of those companies come forward with that info, it is basically speculation...I think, in the end as someone else stated you will see that (for example) average # of failures per 1000 units sold will basically be the same across the board...
10-19-2004, 03:48 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
I personally am not interested in anything but Hitec 5945 and 5925 verse a JR 8611. Most people I know rant on how great the 8611 is and they have no failures to speak of. Hitec is the low cost replacement for futaba and JR servos. Their are far more thread about Hitec servo failures than JR or Futaba so that is the reason for the poll. Hitec 5945 and 5925 are the chose for 35 to 40% planes the other option is the 8611 which is maybe 30.00 more a servo.
10-19-2004, 03:49 PM
#14
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
I've flown many digital hitec's, JR and futaba's all with zero failure. The only major servo I have never tried is airtronics. Futaba 9252's, JR 8411's and 8611's, Hitec 5925/5945's and others in their lines.
I always wonder if a servo fails of any kind how much of that is due to improper setup. Also how many of these cases where a servo looks like it failed only after looking at the post wreckage. Probably lots of pilots blame crashes on equipment failure, interference or something else other than pilot error. I wonder as a sidebar how many crashes in general that are blamed on equipment are really pilot or builder error
I always wonder if a servo fails of any kind how much of that is due to improper setup. Also how many of these cases where a servo looks like it failed only after looking at the post wreckage. Probably lots of pilots blame crashes on equipment failure, interference or something else other than pilot error. I wonder as a sidebar how many crashes in general that are blamed on equipment are really pilot or builder error
10-19-2004, 03:55 PM
#16
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
BTW failure rates are expressed as follows:
Percentage of failed units taken against total units sold.
All major companies produce and sell a statistically significant number of servos where they can double, triple or even sell ten fold current quantities and the failure rate percentage will stay within 1% of what it is now.
As a company sells more product there will be more failures overall but NOT as a percentage of total product being sold.
In other words if Company A sells one million units and has a 1% failure rate that means there will be 10,000 failed units. If Company B sells 10 million units and has a 1% failure rate that means there will be 100,000 failed units. Either way the failure rate is the same although there will be more failures in number only for Company B. This does NOT mean Company B's products are inferior to company A. It means their quality control is identical.
The above example is fictional of course and just there to explain facts and statistics if such a comparison is ever to be made. Only the companies themselves know total units sold and how many come back failed or for service and could properly determine failure rates whatever they may be.
Percentage of failed units taken against total units sold.
All major companies produce and sell a statistically significant number of servos where they can double, triple or even sell ten fold current quantities and the failure rate percentage will stay within 1% of what it is now.
As a company sells more product there will be more failures overall but NOT as a percentage of total product being sold.
In other words if Company A sells one million units and has a 1% failure rate that means there will be 10,000 failed units. If Company B sells 10 million units and has a 1% failure rate that means there will be 100,000 failed units. Either way the failure rate is the same although there will be more failures in number only for Company B. This does NOT mean Company B's products are inferior to company A. It means their quality control is identical.
The above example is fictional of course and just there to explain facts and statistics if such a comparison is ever to be made. Only the companies themselves know total units sold and how many come back failed or for service and could properly determine failure rates whatever they may be.
10-19-2004, 03:58 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
Marc makes a great point, people may first blame equipment before themselves, when poor building, poor hinging etc may be the cause. It seams to me that hitec digitals need to be set-up perfect, they maybe not as forgiving that other bands.
I want peace of mind, I want to know statistically will see that the failure rate is lower than what the claim is.
I want peace of mind, I want to know statistically will see that the failure rate is lower than what the claim is.
10-19-2004, 04:28 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
It would be usefull to know which of the companies are ISO 9000 certified or certified to any other Standards organization. Armed with that knowledge one can access their commitment to excellence against an agreed upon standard. I'm not a statisticion but I do use them in my work. To have real confidence in the data you need to have idea of total unit sales/ unit failure. The smaller your data input the greater the confidence numbers go down.
10-19-2004, 05:38 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
ORIGINAL: JohnVH
doubt that
ORIGINAL: Mokken
Yep just another debate....
If JR or Futaba sold as many servos as Hitec, there failure rate would be the same.
Yep just another debate....
If JR or Futaba sold as many servos as Hitec, there failure rate would be the same.
Mike
10-19-2004, 06:44 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
care to elaborate with some actual figures/facts?
....otherwise this statement is useless.
....otherwise this statement is useless.
ORIGINAL: JohnVH
doubt that
ORIGINAL: Mokken
Yep just another debate....
If JR or Futaba sold as many servos as Hitec, there failure rate would be the same.
Yep just another debate....
If JR or Futaba sold as many servos as Hitec, there failure rate would be the same.
10-19-2004, 06:57 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
The simple fact of the matter is that we never really discussed servo failures "as a rule" until guys started to use Hitecs more regularly. Futaba and JR have been selling an aweful lot of servos for the last 20 or so years and honestly it will take Hitec another 20 years to sell as many servos as these manufacturers have sold to date despite the accepted notion that Hitec is the "servo king" of the market these days.
Now, lets go ahead and rule out the lower end servos and micro stuff and concentrate on the servos that are only suitable for our giant scale application...specifically the 59XX series servos. There are a ton of reports right hear on RCU regarding failures. Where are all the JR and Futaba failure threads? Nobody here thinks that all Brand F and J servos are perfect...in fact the 5945 really got a boost because of the shortcomings of the JR8411 (fast wearing gear train, jittering). However, you Never really heard about an airplane being destroyed because of an 8411 failure. I am not saying that it hasn't happened, but there are a HELL OF A LOT more Hitec "reports" than Futaba and JR. And guess what........we were/are using the same installations and setups with those servos than that we are now! WOW...did guys all of a sudden forget how to install/gang servos when they bought Hitecs?? It's amazing how the reps and manufacturer are soooooo fast to explain how incompetent we all are when someone posts yet ANOTHER thread on how they had a Hitec failure. It is just amazing and it is like clockwork!
So, getting back to issue at hand, I do not believe that there are more Hitecs than JR and Futaba servos in GIANT SCALE planes. Maybe sport types but not our $4000-$8000 aircraft. Especially with the coming JR8611 and the Futaba 9152...not to mention the 8411 which I believe was out long before the 59XX series. If you want to say they have an equal share than fine. That would equal the amount of failures than and it simply is not the case. Again, not to say that the others don't sometimes have issues but it is a much higher percentage with the Hitecs....to the point where I personally believe if you use them you are rolling the dice.
PaulP
Now, lets go ahead and rule out the lower end servos and micro stuff and concentrate on the servos that are only suitable for our giant scale application...specifically the 59XX series servos. There are a ton of reports right hear on RCU regarding failures. Where are all the JR and Futaba failure threads? Nobody here thinks that all Brand F and J servos are perfect...in fact the 5945 really got a boost because of the shortcomings of the JR8411 (fast wearing gear train, jittering). However, you Never really heard about an airplane being destroyed because of an 8411 failure. I am not saying that it hasn't happened, but there are a HELL OF A LOT more Hitec "reports" than Futaba and JR. And guess what........we were/are using the same installations and setups with those servos than that we are now! WOW...did guys all of a sudden forget how to install/gang servos when they bought Hitecs?? It's amazing how the reps and manufacturer are soooooo fast to explain how incompetent we all are when someone posts yet ANOTHER thread on how they had a Hitec failure. It is just amazing and it is like clockwork!
So, getting back to issue at hand, I do not believe that there are more Hitecs than JR and Futaba servos in GIANT SCALE planes. Maybe sport types but not our $4000-$8000 aircraft. Especially with the coming JR8611 and the Futaba 9152...not to mention the 8411 which I believe was out long before the 59XX series. If you want to say they have an equal share than fine. That would equal the amount of failures than and it simply is not the case. Again, not to say that the others don't sometimes have issues but it is a much higher percentage with the Hitecs....to the point where I personally believe if you use them you are rolling the dice.
PaulP
10-19-2004, 07:03 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
I have all Hitecs in my 40% and the Hitec servos will not fail if setup correctly. Mine make no noise at center and no noise at full deflection. If you take the time to setup a plane right it will be just fine!
Dann
Dann
10-19-2004, 07:15 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
I voted but did not see a spot to vote for JR 8411. I also use 5945's with no problems.
Everything can and will fail eventually. I for one am sick and tired of this discussion over and over and over. All you ever hear about are the failures, just think about how many thousands of Hitec, JR, and Futaba guys have no problems at all that you don't hear about. Just buy some servos and get on with your life. If you can't afford to crash a $8000.00 plane or for that matter a $1000.00 plane than you need to take up golf or bowling it's that simple. I would say at least 75% of the crashes are builder related in the first place, they just don't fail for no reason that often.
Everything can and will fail eventually. I for one am sick and tired of this discussion over and over and over. All you ever hear about are the failures, just think about how many thousands of Hitec, JR, and Futaba guys have no problems at all that you don't hear about. Just buy some servos and get on with your life. If you can't afford to crash a $8000.00 plane or for that matter a $1000.00 plane than you need to take up golf or bowling it's that simple. I would say at least 75% of the crashes are builder related in the first place, they just don't fail for no reason that often.
10-19-2004, 07:20 PM
#24
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
Think of it this way.
How many planes are crashed due to pilot error, bad battery pack, uncharged battery, bad wiring with shorts, faulty switches, bad deadstick landing from a motor failure (leardriver...sorry had to..), a failed linkage, flutter, structural failure?
Compare all those causes to servo failures as cause of death? I think the weakest link is rarely the servo failing. Anything can fail in a plane and cause its demise. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. I bet the above failure reasons in my paragraph above outweigh crashes from servo failures at least 100 to 1.
How many planes are crashed due to pilot error, bad battery pack, uncharged battery, bad wiring with shorts, faulty switches, bad deadstick landing from a motor failure (leardriver...sorry had to..), a failed linkage, flutter, structural failure?
Compare all those causes to servo failures as cause of death? I think the weakest link is rarely the servo failing. Anything can fail in a plane and cause its demise. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. I bet the above failure reasons in my paragraph above outweigh crashes from servo failures at least 100 to 1.
10-19-2004, 07:24 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
but where is the PROOF?? Just because you "see" more threads about hitec servos causing problems doesn't mean there IS a problem! You even stated that the shortcomings of the 8411 boosted the popularity of the 59xx servos. So following that logic, wouldn't that indicate that Hitec is selling MORE 59xx servos than JR is selling 8411/8611's? And IF that is true, then it would also be true that you will see more failures. All it takes is one or two exceptionally vocal individuals to spread a bad rumor about a company....then before long EVERYONE believes that manufacturer has problems. Just look at what has happened with Aeroworks on RCU.
Why does it seem so hard for everyone to believe that Hitec is likely selling more servos per year than JR/Futaba?? They are less expensive and perform just as well, so I can easily see how hitec could be outselling the others. But again, until we see actual sales numbers from JR and Hitec, we'll never know for certain...and essentially makes threads/debates like this moot.
In the end, just use what you're comfortable with. I predominately use Hitec, though I have used JR. So far I haven't had any problems with either. (exception, the JR's did show more signs of wear than the hitec's....but the JR's were older and the wear was not unexpected).
Why does it seem so hard for everyone to believe that Hitec is likely selling more servos per year than JR/Futaba?? They are less expensive and perform just as well, so I can easily see how hitec could be outselling the others. But again, until we see actual sales numbers from JR and Hitec, we'll never know for certain...and essentially makes threads/debates like this moot.
In the end, just use what you're comfortable with. I predominately use Hitec, though I have used JR. So far I haven't had any problems with either. (exception, the JR's did show more signs of wear than the hitec's....but the JR's were older and the wear was not unexpected).
ORIGINAL: Leardriver
The simple fact of the matter is that we never really discussed servo failures "as a rule" until guys started to use Hitecs more regularly. Futaba and JR have been selling an aweful lot of servos for the last 20 or so years and honestly it will take Hitec another 20 years to sell as many servos as these manufacturers have sold to date despite the accepted notion that Hitec is the "servo king" of the market these days.
Now, lets go ahead and rule out the lower end servos and micro stuff and concentrate on the servos that are only suitable for our giant scale application...specifically the 59XX series servos. There are a ton of reports right hear on RCU regarding failures. Where are all the JR and Futaba failure threads? Nobody here thinks that all Brand F and J servos are perfect...in fact the 5945 really got a boost because of the shortcomings of the JR8411 (fast wearing gear train, jittering). However, you Never really heard about an airplane being destroyed because of an 8411 failure. I am not saying that it hasn't happened, but there are a HELL OF A LOT more Hitec "reports" than Futaba and JR. And guess what........we were/are using the same installations and setups with those servos than that we are now! WOW...did guys all of a sudden forget how to install/gang servos when they bought Hitecs?? It's amazing how the reps and manufacturer are soooooo fast to explain how incompetent we all are when someone posts yet ANOTHER thread on how they had a Hitec failure. It is just amazing and it is like clockwork!
So, getting back to issue at hand, I do not believe that there are more Hitecs than JR and Futaba servos in GIANT SCALE planes. Maybe sport types but not our $4000-$8000 aircraft. Especially with the coming JR8611 and the Futaba 9152...not to mention the 8411 which I believe was out long before the 59XX series. If you want to say they have an equal share than fine. That would equal the amount of failures than and it simply is not the case. Again, not to say that the others don't sometimes have issues but it is a much higher percentage with the Hitecs....to the point where I personally believe if you use them you are rolling the dice.
PaulP
The simple fact of the matter is that we never really discussed servo failures "as a rule" until guys started to use Hitecs more regularly. Futaba and JR have been selling an aweful lot of servos for the last 20 or so years and honestly it will take Hitec another 20 years to sell as many servos as these manufacturers have sold to date despite the accepted notion that Hitec is the "servo king" of the market these days.
Now, lets go ahead and rule out the lower end servos and micro stuff and concentrate on the servos that are only suitable for our giant scale application...specifically the 59XX series servos. There are a ton of reports right hear on RCU regarding failures. Where are all the JR and Futaba failure threads? Nobody here thinks that all Brand F and J servos are perfect...in fact the 5945 really got a boost because of the shortcomings of the JR8411 (fast wearing gear train, jittering). However, you Never really heard about an airplane being destroyed because of an 8411 failure. I am not saying that it hasn't happened, but there are a HELL OF A LOT more Hitec "reports" than Futaba and JR. And guess what........we were/are using the same installations and setups with those servos than that we are now! WOW...did guys all of a sudden forget how to install/gang servos when they bought Hitecs?? It's amazing how the reps and manufacturer are soooooo fast to explain how incompetent we all are when someone posts yet ANOTHER thread on how they had a Hitec failure. It is just amazing and it is like clockwork!
So, getting back to issue at hand, I do not believe that there are more Hitecs than JR and Futaba servos in GIANT SCALE planes. Maybe sport types but not our $4000-$8000 aircraft. Especially with the coming JR8611 and the Futaba 9152...not to mention the 8411 which I believe was out long before the 59XX series. If you want to say they have an equal share than fine. That would equal the amount of failures than and it simply is not the case. Again, not to say that the others don't sometimes have issues but it is a much higher percentage with the Hitecs....to the point where I personally believe if you use them you are rolling the dice.
PaulP