JetflyerJ

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what would you guys really say is the big difference between the


Composite and Balsa Bandit ??????

I've owned a few Composite and Now I just purchased a balsa Bandit.

So Besides weight, what would you really say are the differences between the two ?

Thanks in advance.............. Johnny Hernandez

Adil Nasim

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Hi Johnny,

I believe the major (or only) difference is the wing. Balsa Bandit has more wing area and is built up and lighter. Main difference is in the slow flight. Supposedly the Balsa version can be flown slower than the composite version.

Adil

Miguel Santana

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Johnny,
and in the case you got a "fingerference"... balsa wings are repairable....[&o][&:]
....sorry, is the hour...
Miguel.-

JetflyerJ

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Cool thanks, so is it safe to say that Balsa bandit can be flown as hard as the Composite ???

What's the weight difference between the two ?


Johnny H.

sandslx

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Johnny

My Buddy All Watson has super comp. bandit and I have the super balsa bandit . We compared the two, and wings are longer and so are the stabs on a Super balsa bandit. Verticals were about the same. They both eat real estate. I have not weighed mine. You can fly around for an easy 8 minutes and still come back with plenty of fuel in the hopper tank with a P-120. I love flying mine. I will PM you on what my MPH my GSU said it did one time. I am sure the way my bird was built, it would take as much as a composite wing would take.

Justin Sands

John Redman

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Johnny,

If the bird was built by the plans you can fly her hard and enjoy it. I have never heard of any wing issues except for guys pushing the main struts through the top wing skin when they get too slow on final and drop it in. Of course this will happen with the composite as well.

The main reason for hte balsa variant was for builders to save a few bucks and also to increase wing area for higher elevation fields around the country (ie, Denver and such).

Fly it and enjoy it. That wing is plenty strong!!!

seanreit

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Johnny,

John flies as hard on a jet as just about anyone I've ever seen fly, maybe more. Those passes he was making in Lubbock last year were really fast and for certain, he had no elevator issues on his bobcat as he was pulling very hard in some of the turns I saw. If he says the balsa bandit can take it, it'll take it.

For what it's worth,

Sean

DavidR

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Johnny,

I have a balsa Bandit I flew for years. It can be flown just as hard as the composite if built per the plans. The only thing I would change is there is a little piece of rib left directly above the main retracts, if it is still there (it's about 1/8" tall) pull the retracts out and grind it off. This gives you a little extra clearance for the mains in a not so perfect landing. The other thing, make sure you have a good servo on the rudder, I blew mine rudder off on the first flight. I also added a 4-40 bolt at the front of the vertical stab in place of the CF pin just for a little added piece of mind. BTW It takes off in a little shorter distance, and might land a couple of mph slower. Great airplane. As far as the strength of the airplane ask me sometime about my incident with it......

JetflyerJ

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Thanks a million for all your help Guys, I needed to hear from a few other guys about this cause I'm going to town with another Bandit


Johnny Hernandez

LGM Graphix

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Johnny,
When I was at Superman I spoke with David Shulman about the balsa vs composite. I am putting an AMT280SP in mine, he recommended against putting that engine in the Balsa Bandit, I've spoken to a couple people who also say if you are going to use a larger turbine to get the Composite. As a result I've got a Composite one here. BV's website also recommends a smaller engine in the balsa bandit than what they say the Composite can take.

JetflyerJ

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Hmmm I was thinking in dropping an FTE 750 in it.......


You think that's too much ?????


there's a throttle stick on the left on my TX [] if it's too much power


What is the Avg weight of a Balsa bandit ?????


Johnny Hernandez

LGM Graphix

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I don't think that is on the high end, I think the FTE750 is 22 pounds right? The AMT I'm putting in is 32 pounds

The balsa bandit I believe is about 20 pounds according to BVM's site, but the 2 I know of flying are about 23. I think Justins is 23 or a little more but he has smoke in his as well with a P120.

JetflyerJ

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yep Talked to Justin and his bandit is definetly a smoking gun. FTE 750 + is the one going on my bird



Thanks again Guys.................... Johnny Hernandez

SUMMIT120

Johnny,

I presently fly a p-160 composite Bandit and a P-120 Balsa Bandit. I built my Balsa Bandit with a composite rudder to avoid some potential issues with flutter that David R. referred to. I also used composite stabs since they are more resistant to hanger rash. The Bandit is my favorite airplane to fly by far. For all practical purposes, both aircraft fly virtually identical in all respects. I have not noticed a significant difference in low speed flying characteristics between the two, despite the fact that the Balsa wing and flaps are larger. The Balsa Bandit wing is very strong. If it is built correctly and glassed with 2 oz. cloth, the Balsa wing should be as strong or stronger than the composite wing. John Redman gave me a lot of advice when I was building the Balsa Bandit. He is a great resource.

Mike Danchak

JetflyerJ

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Thank You Mike


Johnny Hernandez

Tom Antlfinger

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I currently fly a standard compo Bandit/P-120.....capable of well over 200 MPH, straight and level, on a 65 deg day...remember, the Kramers and Frances have been burning up the sky for years with 18-20 lb Mercs, and Mitch Weiss's RAM 500 Bandit drove up the tails of a large number of other sport jets on the market.....not to mention the fast .96 Viofan units.....so don't overdo it with power.... with power comes fuel consumption, and the StandardCompo/Balsa Bandit only carries 2.4 Liters (80 oz + UAT)....I routinely fly mine at 22 lbs max thrust setting to save gas.....still faster than any other plane I own......and I get 7 minute flights with enough for 2 go-arounds.....

Which brings up the weight vs wing skin cracking problem.....ideal to keep the Bandits at no more than 20 lbs dry......the heavier they get, the greater the chance of retract supporting ribs and retract blocks cracking the upper wing skin....this is definitely more of a problem with the Balsa Bandit, IMO....especially if you fly off grass, like I do....then that million dollar paint job starts to looks dorky with crazing and stress cracks.....the skin of the Balsa Bandit actually will start to delaminate from the spar and ribs......and then if you really kangaroo hop it and crack the C/F flex plate, you look at the retract coming out the top of the wing......the Kevlar and soft balsa reinforcement between the retracts and top wing skin that Tom Woods has done on the Bandits he has built helps somewhat...

While back, I picked up Albert's old Yellow/Red/Blue RAM Compo Bandit....sort of a piece of history.....had a RAM 750/1000 in it.....I plan on sticking a Super Bee in it....should be good for 9-10 minute flights and float like a butterfly coming down final at about 18-19 lbs dry.....

So keep em light, and Jeremy, save that Peggy SP for a KingCat......


Tom

LGM Graphix

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But I don't like the Kingcat LOL!!!

Doug Cronkhite

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Let's not forget guys that Bandits originally flew with 14 pound thrust JPX propane burners.. and flew very well. Back in the early days I remember Ram 750 powered versions going WELL over 200 mph without even trying. I'm putting a P-70 in my Super Balsa Bandit. It'll be PLENTY of power. In fact I'm pretty sure that's the combo David Shulman is flying currently.

Tom Antlfinger

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Jeremy:

With that Peggy in there, you will be able to take off with 6" of snow on the runway up there in Coldberta.....gonna be a snowmobile with wings......

Tom

SUMMIT120

Johnny,

One thing that I forgot to mention about building the Balsa Bandit is that you can improve on the durability of the top wing skins over the gear by glassing the inside of the top wing skin in the area of the wheel well and retract plate. (this was another John Redman suggestion) I used 6 oz. glass cloth applied between the ribs, and the glass was applied after the top skin had been glued to the wing. I do not think that the weight penalty was significant at all. By the way both of my Bandits weigh in at 20.5 lbs. dry. This figure includes the weight of the pylons and wing tanks.

Mike Danchak

Doug Cronkhite

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Does anyone have a copy of the outline drawing for the swept fin Super Bandit? Something I could use with a paint program to work on color schemes?

sandslx

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I will see If I can get a swept one for you Doug.

Justin

Doug Cronkhite

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Got a wing/stab drawing? I can fix the straight fin myself if need be..

Gordon Mc

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Doug - Is this of any use ?

I can email larger versions to you if you want - just PM me your email addr.

Doug Cronkhite

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That'll do very nicely Gordon.. Thanks much!