Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
02-14-2005, 05:24 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
First let me say hello to everyone,
I posted asking for help in the 3D section but I thought
this might be a better place to ask my questions.
I have been thinking about getting a large aerobatic/3D airplane
for a few weeks. It looks like I could spend around 1500 to 1600
right now. I have looked at some Wild Hare planes, but I really
like the EF Yak 54. I also have read good things about QuiQue's
Yak 54 72".
What would you recommend for a first time gas pilot learning 3D?
I am really torn between the 72" size and a YS1.40 and the fuel
cost over time vs. the larger gas planes that will save fuel cost
over time????
Background:
I taught myself to fly about 15 years ago and gradually moved up
to a .40 size stick type airplane with a YS45 and tuned pipe. After
flying that for about a year on our farm I fell out of the hobby...
About 6 months ago I got back in and joined a local club.
In that 6 month time frame I have built a Sig Somthin Extra kit,
and about a dozen spads including the SPA3DT... not impressed
with its 3D training capability BTW. [:'(] Also a handful of combat
25 size planes to play with.
I have been asked to help train new pilots by the head flight
instructor at our field... funny thing, he had to show me how the
buddy box works since I have never used one.
I am not sure where to go, I am already bored with the Sig SE,
its a great sport plane, but not so hot with 3D. I fly Aerofly Pro
Deluxe and the larger planes are fantastic compared to the .40
size ones... I have been told by the owner of a Wild Hare Extra
that the sims flies very much like his 25 or 28 %.
BTW I have never purchased an ARF, but with a 3 year old daughter
and 7 month old twins, time is sort in the evenings
Thank you for all your help
I posted asking for help in the 3D section but I thought
this might be a better place to ask my questions.
I have been thinking about getting a large aerobatic/3D airplane
for a few weeks. It looks like I could spend around 1500 to 1600
right now. I have looked at some Wild Hare planes, but I really
like the EF Yak 54. I also have read good things about QuiQue's
Yak 54 72".
What would you recommend for a first time gas pilot learning 3D?
I am really torn between the 72" size and a YS1.40 and the fuel
cost over time vs. the larger gas planes that will save fuel cost
over time????
Background:
I taught myself to fly about 15 years ago and gradually moved up
to a .40 size stick type airplane with a YS45 and tuned pipe. After
flying that for about a year on our farm I fell out of the hobby...
About 6 months ago I got back in and joined a local club.
In that 6 month time frame I have built a Sig Somthin Extra kit,
and about a dozen spads including the SPA3DT... not impressed
with its 3D training capability BTW. [:'(] Also a handful of combat
25 size planes to play with.
I have been asked to help train new pilots by the head flight
instructor at our field... funny thing, he had to show me how the
buddy box works since I have never used one.
I am not sure where to go, I am already bored with the Sig SE,
its a great sport plane, but not so hot with 3D. I fly Aerofly Pro
Deluxe and the larger planes are fantastic compared to the .40
size ones... I have been told by the owner of a Wild Hare Extra
that the sims flies very much like his 25 or 28 %.
BTW I have never purchased an ARF, but with a 3 year old daughter
and 7 month old twins, time is sort in the evenings
Thank you for all your help
02-14-2005, 05:50 PM
#2
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RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
You won't be doing the EF Yak for $1600 but you could come close with the Wild Hare.
The typical costs for a 50cc plane are about $2000, but you can make some concessions that will get you lower.
You would be limited to IMAC basic patterns and some 3D flight, nothing unlimited, but for many people and it being a first time large scale, that is probably a good thing. Your plane will weigh on the higher end of the build plan, but again, it still will fly well.
The reason most 50CC planes cost in excess of your budget is that shaving weight and adding performance usually always means adding money!
DP
The typical costs for a 50cc plane are about $2000, but you can make some concessions that will get you lower.
You would be limited to IMAC basic patterns and some 3D flight, nothing unlimited, but for many people and it being a first time large scale, that is probably a good thing. Your plane will weigh on the higher end of the build plan, but again, it still will fly well.
The reason most 50CC planes cost in excess of your budget is that shaving weight and adding performance usually always means adding money!
DP
02-14-2005, 05:57 PM
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RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
Yep, it can be done quite easily really. And the Wild Hare would be a good plane to start with. I would definately go 50cc gas and shy away from the 72" glow. In the end they will cost nearly the same.
Plane: $500 - A Wild Hare Extra/Edge and hardware will be $500.
Engine: $500 - Try to find a used 50cc gasser. I bought a used Brison 3.2 and a used BME 50 with mufflers from guys here on RCU and couldn't be happier. I saved $150 both times on perfectly running engines.
Servos: $350 - Although not the best, 5 Hitec HS-5645MG's and a standard ball-bearing will do. I do recommend some thing stronger on the rudder, perhaps a Hitec HS-5945MG ($80).
Receiver: $150 - I prefer 8-channel PCM. You could save a few bucks and go with a PPM, it's perfectly acceptable.
Spinner: $40 - Dave Brown Vortech aluminum is a good, inexpensive spinner.
Prop: $25 - A Menz 22x8 is a good prop at a good price. Carbon Fiber will double the price.
Batteries & Switches: $75 - A single 4.8v NiMH on ignition and a single 6.0v on receiver will suffice. Two heavy duty switches are a must.
Misc. stuff: $50 - Servo extension, screws, and whatever else as needed.
There you have it, for $1600 and some change you can have a sweet flying 50cc plane. One nice thing is you can start with budget in mind, then do upgrades here and there (such as to Li-Ion batteries) as needed/wanted.
Be sure to shop around, you may be able to shave a few more bucks of the bottom line. Good luck!
Plane: $500 - A Wild Hare Extra/Edge and hardware will be $500.
Engine: $500 - Try to find a used 50cc gasser. I bought a used Brison 3.2 and a used BME 50 with mufflers from guys here on RCU and couldn't be happier. I saved $150 both times on perfectly running engines.
Servos: $350 - Although not the best, 5 Hitec HS-5645MG's and a standard ball-bearing will do. I do recommend some thing stronger on the rudder, perhaps a Hitec HS-5945MG ($80).
Receiver: $150 - I prefer 8-channel PCM. You could save a few bucks and go with a PPM, it's perfectly acceptable.
Spinner: $40 - Dave Brown Vortech aluminum is a good, inexpensive spinner.
Prop: $25 - A Menz 22x8 is a good prop at a good price. Carbon Fiber will double the price.
Batteries & Switches: $75 - A single 4.8v NiMH on ignition and a single 6.0v on receiver will suffice. Two heavy duty switches are a must.
Misc. stuff: $50 - Servo extension, screws, and whatever else as needed.
There you have it, for $1600 and some change you can have a sweet flying 50cc plane. One nice thing is you can start with budget in mind, then do upgrades here and there (such as to Li-Ion batteries) as needed/wanted.
Be sure to shop around, you may be able to shave a few more bucks of the bottom line. Good luck!
02-14-2005, 08:34 PM
#4
Thread Starter
RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
I forgot to mention that I have a Futaba 9C Super and a 9
channel PCM RX already.... so that will save me a little.
I also have 2 knee mills, a lathe, drill press, belt/disc sander,
and a band saw.... so making some of the hardware is not out
of the question.
channel PCM RX already.... so that will save me a little.
I also have 2 knee mills, a lathe, drill press, belt/disc sander,
and a band saw.... so making some of the hardware is not out
of the question.
02-14-2005, 08:37 PM
#5
Thread Starter
RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
I sure would hate to dump a 1600 or 2000 dolar plane, but that
EF Yak sure is sweet looking!
Sounds like 1/8 scale gase cars on sterroids!!! I raced those for a while years ago!
EF Yak sure is sweet looking!
ORIGINAL: desertpig
You won't be doing the EF Yak for $1600 but you could come close with the Wild Hare.
The typical costs for a 50cc plane are about $2000, but you can make some concessions that will get you lower.
You would be limited to IMAC basic patterns and some 3D flight, nothing unlimited, but for many people and it being a first time large scale, that is probably a good thing. Your plane will weigh on the higher end of the build plan, but again, it still will fly well.
The reason most 50CC planes cost in excess of your budget is that shaving weight and adding performance usually always means adding money!
DP
You won't be doing the EF Yak for $1600 but you could come close with the Wild Hare.
The typical costs for a 50cc plane are about $2000, but you can make some concessions that will get you lower.
You would be limited to IMAC basic patterns and some 3D flight, nothing unlimited, but for many people and it being a first time large scale, that is probably a good thing. Your plane will weigh on the higher end of the build plan, but again, it still will fly well.
The reason most 50CC planes cost in excess of your budget is that shaving weight and adding performance usually always means adding money!
DP
02-14-2005, 09:01 PM
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RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
If you don't mind buying used engines you can very easily keep your plane below $1500. I have put together many 50cc planes and usually I am around the 1200-1300 dollar range. My planes are unlimited in ability and IMO will perform as well as most $2000 planes. I get along real well with DesertPig, but we can never agree on what you have to spend to put one of these together . He has more cash to spend than I do! Just remember, as soon as you start up that new engine, servos or whatever,,,, it is now used!
. He has more cash to spend than I do! Just remember, as soon as you start up that new engine, servos or whatever,,,, it is now used!
02-14-2005, 11:12 PM
#7
Senior Member
RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
My Midwest Extra is very much an unlimited performer with a Brison 3.2 and coreless analog servos, and it came in well under $1600. I've also flown a WH Extra that flew very well and those can easily be set up for less than $1600.
IMAC basic patterns only with a 50cc? HAHAHAHAHA
IMAC basic patterns only with a 50cc? HAHAHAHAHA
02-15-2005, 08:49 AM
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RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
RC Showcase has a combo deal on a 50NG and a Kange Laser 2000 that is a beautiful flyer for $1130 includes spinner, prop , battery, fuel tubing etc.
The Laser includes hardware so you would need servos and batteries only.
I owned this plane and it was well built and flew fantastic...check out the comments here on RCU.
The Laser includes hardware so you would need servos and batteries only.
I owned this plane and it was well built and flew fantastic...check out the comments here on RCU.
02-15-2005, 10:25 AM
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RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
I agree on the money thing. I always buy the high end, maybe because I can afford it, but also , just to keep things simple. If every servo in all my planes is one type, it makes it easy to maintain, do gear changes, etc. Same with engines. I have only flown DA, 3W and ZDZ. Since I do need at least some of the super high quality digitals in just about every plane I build, it just makes sense to put them in everything (well, except my Ultra Stick). I mostly use 5945s or 8611s in all the planes I do for others as well so again, simplicity.
Not sure how I got sucked into buying the best of the best on every plane, but in reality I have had some planes for years, so over time, I really have not spent that much. Also when I go to sell one, the first question I get asked is what servos and engine... when I say DA or 8611 I usually here SOLD!
DP
Not sure how I got sucked into buying the best of the best on every plane, but in reality I have had some planes for years, so over time, I really have not spent that much. Also when I go to sell one, the first question I get asked is what servos and engine... when I say DA or 8611 I usually here SOLD!
DP
02-15-2005, 10:27 AM
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RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
ORIGINAL: Flyfalcons
My Midwest Extra is very much an unlimited performer with a Brison 3.2 and coreless analog servos, and it came in well under $1600. I've also flown a WH Extra that flew very well and those can easily be set up for less than $1600.
IMAC basic patterns only with a 50cc? HAHAHAHAHA
My Midwest Extra is very much an unlimited performer with a Brison 3.2 and coreless analog servos, and it came in well under $1600. I've also flown a WH Extra that flew very well and those can easily be set up for less than $1600.
IMAC basic patterns only with a 50cc? HAHAHAHAHA
I was referring to if the WH was set up with the supported Zenoah engine. If you put a Brison up front, no worries.
DP
02-15-2005, 10:57 AM
#11
Senior Member
RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
Hmm, I got into my 1/4 scale with 45cc for under $500. All parts new. Of course, I got a steal on the airframe. $30 for a Byron CAP-21.
02-15-2005, 04:28 PM
#12
Thread Starter
RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
What do you guys think of this plane?
I did a quick search and everyone seems to like the quality,
but how well does it fly? Is it a good 3D palne?
1130.00 seems like a good deal, I was leaning to a DA engine,
but I here the ZDZ's a great also.
I did a quick search and everyone seems to like the quality,
but how well does it fly? Is it a good 3D palne?
1130.00 seems like a good deal, I was leaning to a DA engine,
but I here the ZDZ's a great also.
ORIGINAL: andyt
RC Showcase has a combo deal on a 50NG and a Kange Laser 2000 that is a beautiful flyer for $1130 includes spinner, prop , battery, fuel tubing etc.
The Laser includes hardware so you would need servos and batteries only.
I owned this plane and it was well built and flew fantastic...check out the comments here on RCU.
RC Showcase has a combo deal on a 50NG and a Kange Laser 2000 that is a beautiful flyer for $1130 includes spinner, prop , battery, fuel tubing etc.
The Laser includes hardware so you would need servos and batteries only.
I owned this plane and it was well built and flew fantastic...check out the comments here on RCU.
02-15-2005, 04:34 PM
#13
Thread Starter
RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
I think I would be scared to purchase a used engine....
One thing I have never scrimped on was engines.... my
first .45 was a YS45 and the engine I bought for the Somthin
Extra is a Ervine .53... I saved a few bucks and got a Super
Tiger .51 ringed engine for my SPA3DT, knowing it would see
the dirt, and it is no where near as nice as the Ervine, and harder
to tune.
Plus with my luck I would find the one dead beat selling a trashed
engine
I am just lucky that way! [:@]
One thing I have never scrimped on was engines.... my
first .45 was a YS45 and the engine I bought for the Somthin
Extra is a Ervine .53... I saved a few bucks and got a Super
Tiger .51 ringed engine for my SPA3DT, knowing it would see
the dirt, and it is no where near as nice as the Ervine, and harder
to tune.
Plus with my luck I would find the one dead beat selling a trashed
engine
I am just lucky that way! [:@]
ORIGINAL: Bryant330L
If you don't mind buying used engines you can very easily keep your plane below $1500. I have put together many 50cc planes and usually I am around the 1200-1300 dollar range. My planes are unlimited in ability and IMO will perform as well as most $2000 planes. I get along real well with DesertPig, but we can never agree on what you have to spend to put one of these together. He has more cash to spend than I do! Just remember, as soon as you start up that new engine, servos or whatever,,,, it is now used!
If you don't mind buying used engines you can very easily keep your plane below $1500. I have put together many 50cc planes and usually I am around the 1200-1300 dollar range. My planes are unlimited in ability and IMO will perform as well as most $2000 planes. I get along real well with DesertPig, but we can never agree on what you have to spend to put one of these together
. He has more cash to spend than I do! Just remember, as soon as you start up that new engine, servos or whatever,,,, it is now used!
02-15-2005, 04:36 PM
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RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
Kelly, first thing you need to decide is whether you're the type that must have the best of the best. Most sport flyers don't need 1/2 the stuff that are "recommended", just to have some serious Sunday fun. It is not at all difficult to do a complete RTF package for a 25-28% aerobat for less than $1000, with good engine and radio gear. It just takes a little patience and time to hunt/wait around for bargains. Things go on sale, items get clearanced, and companies offer incentives from time to time. As long as you are not caught up with the hoopla about the latest and greatest, yesterday's premium selection is often times today's best buy.
Personally, I have a philosophical abhorrence to paying full retail - for ANYTHING - even if I could afford it. Besides, the better the deal I got on the airplane, the better I fly it. I am just that much more relaxed flying them.
But then again, it's your disposable income, and you should make do with it whatever makes you happy.
Personally, I have a philosophical abhorrence to paying full retail - for ANYTHING - even if I could afford it. Besides, the better the deal I got on the airplane, the better I fly it. I am just that much more relaxed flying them.
But then again, it's your disposable income, and you should make do with it whatever makes you happy.
02-15-2005, 04:37 PM
#15
Thread Starter
RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
I think I would go with the Wild Hare Extra if I had to choose now,
but I think 2 other guys have them at our field, I really would like
something a little different even if it was just the color's.
I know my wife would tell me to go for the YAK, maybe I will
have to show her all three and see what she thinks! I told her she
should ba a profesional shopper!
but I think 2 other guys have them at our field, I really would like
something a little different even if it was just the color's.
I know my wife would tell me to go for the YAK, maybe I will
have to show her all three and see what she thinks! I told her she
should ba a profesional shopper!
02-15-2005, 04:57 PM
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RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
Kangke has good planes, the wing loadings are high though. Personally I would not recommend it as first gasser, they can be snappy and if this is your first gasser you will be building it heavy. Not a good combo on that plane. My opinion you could do a lot better for a little more.
If you came to me as a "customer" here is what I'de recommend for a budget bird that still has guts:
Wild Hare Edge or Extra ($465 shipped)
Brison 3.2 (new its $450, if you can find one used they are about $350) it has 26 pounds of thrust (at least that what the website says) The DA 50 has over 30 pounds of thrust.. so you make the call there as to whether $100 more is well spent
The DA is $550
Muffler : about $100, but can be had for less if you look around. I paid $50 for mine NIB.
Ignition Battery: 4 cell (4.8V) NoBS 1200 MaH NiMh , JR HD switch $23 + $15
RX Battery: 5 Cell (6V) NoBs 2200 NiMh, 2 JR HD Switches $32 + $15 + $15
Prop: Bambula or Equiv 22x8 $20
Spinner: Kangke Polished Aluminum Spinner - $30
Servos, Ailerons and Elevators: JR 811 or Hitec 645MG (The Hitecs are about $40 each x 4 = $160).
Servo, Rudder : 1 JR8611 $105
Servo, Throttle: 1 Hitec 425BB $12 (I prefer a speedy digital, but that costs $$)
Servo Arms - DuBro HD I always use metal arms, but many use these without issues
Linkage - Stainless Steel 4-40 turnbuckles, used as linkages for ailerons and elevators purchased at LHS for car front ends $12
Control Horns - DuBro HD $7 a pair ailerons, elev + $10 for rudder = $24
Misc - fuel tank, servo extensions, glue, wheels, etc.. I'de budget at least $100, this stuff adds up quickly
So total it up:
DA option new: $1613
Brison option new: $1513
This of course assumes you already have a RX. You can figure +/- 10-15% from this based on whether you can find a used engine (or want to) and /or other accessories.
Personally, I think the DA50 has a lot more power and on this plane you will want it, but the Brison will pull it OK and is a good engine as well. Tom at Wild Hare might be able to give you a better idea on how that engine performs on his planes.
DP
If you came to me as a "customer" here is what I'de recommend for a budget bird that still has guts:
Wild Hare Edge or Extra ($465 shipped)
Brison 3.2 (new its $450, if you can find one used they are about $350) it has 26 pounds of thrust (at least that what the website says) The DA 50 has over 30 pounds of thrust.. so you make the call there as to whether $100 more is well spent
The DA is $550
Muffler : about $100, but can be had for less if you look around. I paid $50 for mine NIB.
Ignition Battery: 4 cell (4.8V) NoBS 1200 MaH NiMh , JR HD switch $23 + $15
RX Battery: 5 Cell (6V) NoBs 2200 NiMh, 2 JR HD Switches $32 + $15 + $15
Prop: Bambula or Equiv 22x8 $20
Spinner: Kangke Polished Aluminum Spinner - $30
Servos, Ailerons and Elevators: JR 811 or Hitec 645MG (The Hitecs are about $40 each x 4 = $160).
Servo, Rudder : 1 JR8611 $105
Servo, Throttle: 1 Hitec 425BB $12 (I prefer a speedy digital, but that costs $$)
Servo Arms - DuBro HD I always use metal arms, but many use these without issues
Linkage - Stainless Steel 4-40 turnbuckles, used as linkages for ailerons and elevators purchased at LHS for car front ends $12
Control Horns - DuBro HD $7 a pair ailerons, elev + $10 for rudder = $24
Misc - fuel tank, servo extensions, glue, wheels, etc.. I'de budget at least $100, this stuff adds up quickly
So total it up:
DA option new: $1613
Brison option new: $1513
This of course assumes you already have a RX. You can figure +/- 10-15% from this based on whether you can find a used engine (or want to) and /or other accessories.
Personally, I think the DA50 has a lot more power and on this plane you will want it, but the Brison will pull it OK and is a good engine as well. Tom at Wild Hare might be able to give you a better idea on how that engine performs on his planes.
DP
02-15-2005, 05:02 PM
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RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
I fly a Kangke Laser with a Brison 3.2. Its a fantastic flying plane, built really well, and went together perfectly. Everything fit like it was supposed to. The tail group is large, plently large for 3D. The ailerons are pretty wide but they are cut short, so if the plane has a weak spot it would be here. There is a video on another site (Down-On-the-Deck) of a Kangle Laser with a DA 50 that 3D's quite well. I'm not a 3D pilot so I comment there, but I'm very pleased with mine. Most of the time I fly around on low rates, working on IMAC-type aerobatics.
The Wild Hare is a good choice. Some have had minor problems that need correcting during construction. Good luck!
The Wild Hare is a good choice. Some have had minor problems that need correcting during construction. Good luck!
02-15-2005, 05:14 PM
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RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
The Laser is a nice plane, it just does not have airfoiled tail surfaces (a big negative IMO) and those tail wires are ugly and a real hassle.. show stoppers for me. I almost bought one when I first got into gas, but I am glad I went the route I did instead (Columbo Anderson 31% Extra)
Kankge's fit and finish however is superb. I had their CAP and Monocoupe. Both top notch airplanes.
DP
Kankge's fit and finish however is superb. I had their CAP and Monocoupe. Both top notch airplanes.
DP
02-15-2005, 05:21 PM
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RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
I had the Kangke Texas Hurricane and it was a good flying plane. No bad habits at all. I had a zdz 40 in it and it was plenty of power for anything you wanted. It looks and flys real similar to an edge so stability was not a problem. I have never flown their Laser so I can't comment on that one.
02-15-2005, 05:32 PM
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RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
The Laser is a nice plane, it just does not have airfoiled tail surfaces (a big negative IMO) and those tail wires are ugly and a real hassle.. show stoppers for me. I almost bought one when I first got into gas, but I am glad I went the route I did instead (Columbo Anderson 31% Extra)
Kankge's fit and finish however is superb. I had their CAP and Monocoupe. Both top notch airplanes.
DP
Kankge's fit and finish however is superb. I had their CAP and Monocoupe. Both top notch airplanes.
DP
02-15-2005, 05:43 PM
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RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
I'm just finishing up a Double Vision, Brison 3.2, Futaba coreless analog servo plane....under $1600. Cash outlay was a lot less because I used components I had in the collection from the swap meets.
02-16-2005, 09:18 AM
#22
Thread Starter
RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
Do I have to have the best? No... unless it will hurt my ability to
learn. I have to have a plane capable of doing it all even if I can't.
I want to stand in the flight box knowing that if I can't do something
it is me not the plane that has a problem.
One great thing about this hobby over 1/8 scale racing is the lack of
competition at our field! It is so nice to go fly with a bunch of great
guys that love planes but do not put you down if you dont have this
or that.
Since large scale is new to me can you give a few examples of the
recommended stuff that I would not need?
Are you talking about Lipoly's, and voltage regulators and things like that?
I guess you can call me a Sunday flier, I will not compete in aerobatics,
maybe some combat once in a while (with a $50 plane) but this will be
strictly for my enjoyment and relaxation.
I am with you on the retail thing 100%
learn. I have to have a plane capable of doing it all even if I can't.
I want to stand in the flight box knowing that if I can't do something
it is me not the plane that has a problem.
One great thing about this hobby over 1/8 scale racing is the lack of
competition at our field! It is so nice to go fly with a bunch of great
guys that love planes but do not put you down if you dont have this
or that.
Since large scale is new to me can you give a few examples of the
recommended stuff that I would not need?
Are you talking about Lipoly's, and voltage regulators and things like that?
I guess you can call me a Sunday flier, I will not compete in aerobatics,
maybe some combat once in a while (with a $50 plane) but this will be
strictly for my enjoyment and relaxation.
I am with you on the retail thing 100%
ORIGINAL: Volfy
Kelly, first thing you need to decide is whether you're the type that must have the best of the best. Most sport flyers don't need 1/2 the stuff that are "recommended", just to have some serious Sunday fun. It is not at all difficult to do a complete RTF package for a 25-28% aerobat for less than $1000, with good engine and radio gear. It just takes a little patience and time to hunt/wait around for bargains. Things go on sale, items get clearanced, and companies offer incentives from time to time. As long as you are not caught up with the hoopla about the latest and greatest, yesterday's premium selection is often times today's best buy.
Personally, I have a philosophical abhorrence to paying full retail - for ANYTHING - even if I could afford it. Besides, the better the deal I got on the airplane, the better I fly it. I am just that much more relaxed flying them.
But then again, it's your disposable income, and you should make do with it whatever makes you happy.
Kelly, first thing you need to decide is whether you're the type that must have the best of the best. Most sport flyers don't need 1/2 the stuff that are "recommended", just to have some serious Sunday fun. It is not at all difficult to do a complete RTF package for a 25-28% aerobat for less than $1000, with good engine and radio gear. It just takes a little patience and time to hunt/wait around for bargains. Things go on sale, items get clearanced, and companies offer incentives from time to time. As long as you are not caught up with the hoopla about the latest and greatest, yesterday's premium selection is often times today's best buy.
Personally, I have a philosophical abhorrence to paying full retail - for ANYTHING - even if I could afford it. Besides, the better the deal I got on the airplane, the better I fly it. I am just that much more relaxed flying them.
But then again, it's your disposable income, and you should make do with it whatever makes you happy.
02-16-2005, 09:40 AM
#23
Thread Starter
RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
I noticed the lack of an airfoiled tail also. That pretty much scratched it off my list.
ORIGINAL: desertpig
The Laser is a nice plane, it just does not have airfoiled tail surfaces (a big negative IMO) and those tail wires are ugly and a real hassle.. show stoppers for me. I almost bought one when I first got into gas, but I am glad I went the route I did instead (Columbo Anderson 31% Extra)
Kankge's fit and finish however is superb. I had their CAP and Monocoupe. Both top notch airplanes.
DP
The Laser is a nice plane, it just does not have airfoiled tail surfaces (a big negative IMO) and those tail wires are ugly and a real hassle.. show stoppers for me. I almost bought one when I first got into gas, but I am glad I went the route I did instead (Columbo Anderson 31% Extra)
Kankge's fit and finish however is superb. I had their CAP and Monocoupe. Both top notch airplanes.
DP
02-16-2005, 09:50 AM
#24
Thread Starter
RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
Great info on the Kangke, thank you.
Would the list below stay the same (beside the price) if I replaced the
plane with the EF Yak 54? Thet list the yak at 649.00 I think + shipping.
Would a Hitec HS-635HB be overkill on the throttle? I have 2 of
those new in box.
Why a JR servo for the rudder? Any Hitecs for the rudder available?
I think I would go for the DA50
Yes I have a 9C Super and a 9 channel PCM Rx.
Would the list below stay the same (beside the price) if I replaced the
plane with the EF Yak 54? Thet list the yak at 649.00 I think + shipping.
Would a Hitec HS-635HB be overkill on the throttle? I have 2 of
those new in box.
Why a JR servo for the rudder? Any Hitecs for the rudder available?
I think I would go for the DA50
Yes I have a 9C Super and a 9 channel PCM Rx.
ORIGINAL: desertpig
Kangke has good planes, the wing loadings are high though. Personally I would not recommend it as first gasser, they can be snappy and if this is your first gasser you will be building it heavy. Not a good combo on that plane. My opinion you could do a lot better for a little more.
If you came to me as a "customer" here is what I'de recommend for a budget bird that still has guts:
Wild Hare Edge or Extra ($465 shipped)
Brison 3.2 (new its $450, if you can find one used they are about $350) it has 26 pounds of thrust (at least that what the website says) The DA 50 has over 30 pounds of thrust.. so you make the call there as to whether $100 more is well spent
The DA is $550
Muffler : about $100, but can be had for less if you look around. I paid $50 for mine NIB.
Ignition Battery: 4 cell (4.8V) NoBS 1200 MaH NiMh , JR HD switch $23 + $15
RX Battery: 5 Cell (6V) NoBs 2200 NiMh, 2 JR HD Switches $32 + $15 + $15
Prop: Bambula or Equiv 22x8 $20
Spinner: Kangke Polished Aluminum Spinner - $30
Servos, Ailerons and Elevators: JR 811 or Hitec 645MG (The Hitecs are about $40 each x 4 = $160).
Servo, Rudder : 1 JR8611 $105
Servo, Throttle: 1 Hitec 425BB $12 (I prefer a speedy digital, but that costs $$)
Servo Arms - DuBro HD I always use metal arms, but many use these without issues
Linkage - Stainless Steel 4-40 turnbuckles, used as linkages for ailerons and elevators purchased at LHS for car front ends $12
Control Horns - DuBro HD $7 a pair ailerons, elev + $10 for rudder = $24
Misc - fuel tank, servo extensions, glue, wheels, etc.. I'de budget at least $100, this stuff adds up quickly
So total it up:
DA option new: $1613
Brison option new: $1513
This of course assumes you already have a RX. You can figure +/- 10-15% from this based on whether you can find a used engine (or want to) and /or other accessories.
Personally, I think the DA50 has a lot more power and on this plane you will want it, but the Brison will pull it OK and is a good engine as well. Tom at Wild Hare might be able to give you a better idea on how that engine performs on his planes.
DP
Kangke has good planes, the wing loadings are high though. Personally I would not recommend it as first gasser, they can be snappy and if this is your first gasser you will be building it heavy. Not a good combo on that plane. My opinion you could do a lot better for a little more.
If you came to me as a "customer" here is what I'de recommend for a budget bird that still has guts:
Wild Hare Edge or Extra ($465 shipped)
Brison 3.2 (new its $450, if you can find one used they are about $350) it has 26 pounds of thrust (at least that what the website says) The DA 50 has over 30 pounds of thrust.. so you make the call there as to whether $100 more is well spent
The DA is $550
Muffler : about $100, but can be had for less if you look around. I paid $50 for mine NIB.
Ignition Battery: 4 cell (4.8V) NoBS 1200 MaH NiMh , JR HD switch $23 + $15
RX Battery: 5 Cell (6V) NoBs 2200 NiMh, 2 JR HD Switches $32 + $15 + $15
Prop: Bambula or Equiv 22x8 $20
Spinner: Kangke Polished Aluminum Spinner - $30
Servos, Ailerons and Elevators: JR 811 or Hitec 645MG (The Hitecs are about $40 each x 4 = $160).
Servo, Rudder : 1 JR8611 $105
Servo, Throttle: 1 Hitec 425BB $12 (I prefer a speedy digital, but that costs $$)
Servo Arms - DuBro HD I always use metal arms, but many use these without issues
Linkage - Stainless Steel 4-40 turnbuckles, used as linkages for ailerons and elevators purchased at LHS for car front ends $12
Control Horns - DuBro HD $7 a pair ailerons, elev + $10 for rudder = $24
Misc - fuel tank, servo extensions, glue, wheels, etc.. I'de budget at least $100, this stuff adds up quickly
So total it up:
DA option new: $1613
Brison option new: $1513
This of course assumes you already have a RX. You can figure +/- 10-15% from this based on whether you can find a used engine (or want to) and /or other accessories.
Personally, I think the DA50 has a lot more power and on this plane you will want it, but the Brison will pull it OK and is a good engine as well. Tom at Wild Hare might be able to give you a better idea on how that engine performs on his planes.
DP
02-16-2005, 10:39 AM
#25
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RE: Can I do a 25% - 28% for $1600
Advent -
The EF Yak is a superb plane, but it is a step up in size. It is an experts plane. The $649 is not a bad price as the plane comes with $150 worth of hardware and basically everything you need to set up the plane with. You simply need to add radio, engine, and a few other things and you are done. I am still wrestling with myself over whether I need one of these planes or not!!
The challenge you have is to really get the most out of the Yak you will probably want to install digital servos which are double the price of the 645MGs. It is designed to be very light so to keep it that way you'de probably want Li-Ion power then too... and so the price keeps going up.
If it were me putting together the Yak, I would just go for it, but I know keeping costs down can be a challenge. The main reason I recommended the WH is that it is a very forgiving plane and for someone coming off glow into these large planes it is a very easy transition. It is also very fun to fly.
The YAK was designed specifically for extreme 3D. It is clearly capable of doing it but it will be quite limited and possibly dangerous with lesser quality servos and battery power. Is it mandatory to have digital servos and LI-Ion installed - NO, but I think you would be disappointed if you were to not install them. You would probably have to "manage" the amount of throttle you use and the loads you put on the surfaces (easier said that done, at least for me). My guess is that you will be very near the load limit of the 645MGs and that is not a good position to be in. You could call the guys at ExtremeRC and see what they have to say about it.. they are very helpful!
The 635HB would be OK for throttle - definitely not overkill. I only suggested the cheap servo to save money. I never use the cheapos for throtte, I use either a Hitec 5925 or 5245 (digi mini) for throttle. Both these serovs offer a .12 second or less travel time. A fast throttle servo is a must if you plan to do 3D, especially for controlling torque rolls. As far as I am concerned, there is no overkill on speed. Now putting an 8611 or 5955 there WOULD be overkill.
As far as rudder servo - you have choices - the JR DS8611 or the Hitec 5955TG both are excellent and about the same price. I get my JRs for under $100 so I usually use these. The Hitecs are about $115 each. Futaba makes a good ultra torque too for your futaba radio.. don't overlook that option either - I just can't remember if its a standard size or a giant size. If its a giant, then its too heavy! I don't have any experience with FUT so I won't make any more comments than that.
If you like Hitec use the 5955, you can't go wrong there!
My final comment here would be that if you don't want any limits in performance from your plane, you can't put too tight a limit on your budget. You won't need to get the best of the best, but what you select should at least match what you plan to do to the plane. If you just want to easy fly the Yak and not pound it with walls and blenders, then the answer to your first question is probably "yes". Sounds to me though that you want to excersize your plane and learn advanced 3D and if that's the case, you better spend the $$ to make sure you have a bullet proof setup or you will be spending a lot more to replace stuff... or worse!
I would think you could still come in just under $2K with a near top of the line setup with the Yak that would handle anything you threw at it.
DP
The EF Yak is a superb plane, but it is a step up in size. It is an experts plane. The $649 is not a bad price as the plane comes with $150 worth of hardware and basically everything you need to set up the plane with. You simply need to add radio, engine, and a few other things and you are done. I am still wrestling with myself over whether I need one of these planes or not!!
The challenge you have is to really get the most out of the Yak you will probably want to install digital servos which are double the price of the 645MGs. It is designed to be very light so to keep it that way you'de probably want Li-Ion power then too... and so the price keeps going up.
If it were me putting together the Yak, I would just go for it, but I know keeping costs down can be a challenge. The main reason I recommended the WH is that it is a very forgiving plane and for someone coming off glow into these large planes it is a very easy transition. It is also very fun to fly.
The YAK was designed specifically for extreme 3D. It is clearly capable of doing it but it will be quite limited and possibly dangerous with lesser quality servos and battery power. Is it mandatory to have digital servos and LI-Ion installed - NO, but I think you would be disappointed if you were to not install them. You would probably have to "manage" the amount of throttle you use and the loads you put on the surfaces (easier said that done, at least for me). My guess is that you will be very near the load limit of the 645MGs and that is not a good position to be in. You could call the guys at ExtremeRC and see what they have to say about it.. they are very helpful!
The 635HB would be OK for throttle - definitely not overkill. I only suggested the cheap servo to save money. I never use the cheapos for throtte, I use either a Hitec 5925 or 5245 (digi mini) for throttle. Both these serovs offer a .12 second or less travel time. A fast throttle servo is a must if you plan to do 3D, especially for controlling torque rolls. As far as I am concerned, there is no overkill on speed. Now putting an 8611 or 5955 there WOULD be overkill.
As far as rudder servo - you have choices - the JR DS8611 or the Hitec 5955TG both are excellent and about the same price. I get my JRs for under $100 so I usually use these. The Hitecs are about $115 each. Futaba makes a good ultra torque too for your futaba radio.. don't overlook that option either - I just can't remember if its a standard size or a giant size. If its a giant, then its too heavy! I don't have any experience with FUT so I won't make any more comments than that.
If you like Hitec use the 5955, you can't go wrong there!
My final comment here would be that if you don't want any limits in performance from your plane, you can't put too tight a limit on your budget. You won't need to get the best of the best, but what you select should at least match what you plan to do to the plane. If you just want to easy fly the Yak and not pound it with walls and blenders, then the answer to your first question is probably "yes". Sounds to me though that you want to excersize your plane and learn advanced 3D and if that's the case, you better spend the $$ to make sure you have a bullet proof setup or you will be spending a lot more to replace stuff... or worse!
I would think you could still come in just under $2K with a near top of the line setup with the Yak that would handle anything you threw at it.
DP