jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

If you haven't seen it. Check out what the 'higher ups' have in store for us now!!! Here's a post by JR from another forum warning us about what is to come!!!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_26...tm.htm#2667056

Origonal link is:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/mag/0305/president.htm

lov2flyrc

My Feedback: (24)

LOL.....DB, [sm=stupid.gif]

ShaneUSMC

My Feedback: (1)

Alright, who voted for that guy? [:@] I mean really? No one I know did.

Ron Stahl

My Feedback: (12)

I am going to the WRAM Show next week. You can be sure that I will stop by and inform them about how I feel and how stupid an idea this is!

Skymac

My Feedback: (8)

[:@] That Idea blows, but atleast it's not more b.s. rules and regulations......

Ram-bro

My Feedback: (101)

Just like a politician, get in office and then tax the hell outta you. I guess he figures in his mind that if you fly turbines,3D, racersor helis you can afford to support 5 other toy flyers. He apparently doesnt want to show us the facts when it comes to whom or what is costing us. I guess when your in the minority you can be picked on and blamed for all the issues, problems and price increases. Dave will be starting a class war in my opinion and probably a exodus. He will be creating another tier of govt/club oversite and probably a weakening of the AMA in general. All for some guys who buy $60 toys and dont need or desire the insurance. I feel that some facets in the hobby will be sacrificed for the good of no one. But dave maybe smarter than we are led to believe, this could be his master plan to rid the AMA of the responsibilty of Turbines, Racers, 3d flyers and even the Heli crowd. But then....what would he pick on then? what would be his excuse. we 1%ers will be extinct in the next 3yrs if it is left up to DB. just my 2%ers worth. There, I have vented...but I dont feel better.

ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

PMFJI Gentlemen, but I do not see anything wrong with Dave’s idea. If a tiered system would eliminate the restrictions imposed on turbines, then I would consider it welcoming news. I would not hesitate to pay up x 4 of my current AMA dues to get the same coverage without any restrictions on flying my turbine powered airplanes. If you seriously think about it, we currently have tiered system when it comes to flying turbines. The minimum average Jet event landing fees is about $40.00 and as ridiculously high as $200.00. Could you tell me any other model event with that type of entry fees?

Before we start jumping the guns, take few minutes and reflect on the pros and cons of the proposal before forming an opinion.

Just my 2¢ worth of contribution.


Best Regards

Ben

Crazy4Flight

My Feedback: (540)

dave browns presidents perspective: partial quote

It is becoming an increasing trend for clubs to close their gates and limit their membership to a fixed number.

The United flying Organization (UFO) AMA1025, Highland Michigan, has cut their membership cap from 100 to 85 members. They once had a cap of 125.

Crazy4Flight

My Feedback: (540)

Do we not currently have a tiered system?

RENEWAL RATE 58.00

NEWMEMBER RATE 19.95 ( see banner adds right here in RCU )

sideshow

My Feedback: (11)

Ben....I don't think anyone would argue with you....but we all know that that is a dream. DB knows who got him into office......it wasn't us. He's playing the ends against the middle.

*cough*

FF

*cough

CL

*cough*

Let's do it again.........

Ron Stahl

My Feedback: (12)

Ben,
I agree that if it did as you suggest then I would be for it. However the largest risk group is not us. It is mostly people not in clubs that have personal injury claims, I am going to ask that they post how many of those they have paid. I got that from when I asked last year; where did we pay the most in claims? The answer I got was that the indoor free flight modelers had a huge number of claims versus the number of people that claim they fly those types of models. Mostly from falls retrieving the models stuck in the rafters. I just wished Dave would retire and let the new blood have a chance. He did the same thing when he was flying in competition. I remember seeing him at the TOC long after he was qualified to be there, just because he was Dave Brown. I once saw him as a role model as a youngster, but not now.

Mace

My Feedback: (21)

Money...Politics...Dave Brown...and the AMA, something sounds fishy to me. LOL <(will continue to LOL for a while)

jetflyer

My Feedback: (5)

That does it, I'm sending in my paper work to join M.A.A.C (Model Aeronautics Association of Canada) and will be in a position to say #$%& you Dave Brown if the AMA implements a tiered system.

And what about the people who have been flying with homeowners insurance or umbrella policies already? Shouldn't we have been given a choice for a reduced membership? After all AMA's insurance is secondary unless you don't already carry insurance.

I've researched, investigated, and confirmed with both AMA and MAAC that any MAAC member can fly at any AMA chartered field or event. AMA has a reciprocal agreement with MAAC. The only catch is in order to join MAAC the first time, you need to show proof of your current AMA membership. After that renewals are just renewals and no AMA current membership is needed.

Here is a link to the MAAC membership form - http://www.maac.ca/forms/form_membership.pdf

JR Gautreaux

lov2flyrc

My Feedback: (24)

Ben Ben Ben,
You cant possibly think that even if this assinine tiered system was put into place DB would allow ANY reduction of restrictions for turbine aircraft [sm=stupid.gif]
Just what exactly would be "Pro" about introducing a tierd system for this segment of the hobby [sm=confused.gif]? Cant seem to think of one positive thing to come out of it.....
Todd

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

You can bet it's just a start!! If he gets this in watch out for a tiered waiver system for giant scale etc!!! He's tried over and over to mess around with the jet and 3d crowd. Eventually he'll expand to the warbird etc guys, it's just a matter of time!! He's definately NOT goint to relax any of the rules unless he's forced too!!! Over a year ago in his column he wrote that technology and RC had become way to advanced and we needed to cap it and in his opinion reduce the limits on it!!! He just aint happy unless he's ****ing in someone's fruit loops!!!!!!!!

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

I agree, even if this tiered type of membership goes into effect, he will see to that the current restrictions are not replaced or relaxed. I am amazed at the way the AMA, who should be embracing some of the newest technological advancements made in the last few years, has chosen to stick their heads in the sands and go down this path. I hope some of the newer members of the EC head this off before it gets out of hand, and are not bulldogged by DB on this issue.
TOmmy

bcovish

My Feedback: (8)

JR

Our field here in Austin is owned by the "City of Austin". In our contract with the city, anyone flying here must be an "AMA" member. no mention of "MAAC" and to get things changed with the city would be a major task.

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Bob, in the eyes of the law, according the information I've got, an AMA membership would be translucsent to a MAAC membership requireing no change in the documentation. Think of it like a Texan with a Texan drivers license driving in Florida without a Florida Drivers License. The laws are written "as or equal to". This is why you don't "have" to have drivers insurance. You can put up $50,000.00 cash to the state instead and never have an insurance bill.

Even though the club rules state otherwise, the "as or equal to" law would cover the MAAC member.

Steve Collins

My Feedback: (8)

The rest of the world sits back and laughs at the crap AMA throws at us!

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Heck no ... I have a pretty good idea where that guy keeps his head, and I for one am not reaching in there...


I'm actually all for a tiered system, as long as:
[ul][*] The extra fees raised do more than just pay for the extra administrative overhead - i.e. there has to be something of value for the members that comes out of this, not just more "busy" work for the AMA.[*] The groups that are required to pay higher fees are in fact the groups with the highest insurance costs. Last time I checked, the highest claim paid out ever by the AMA was for a fire started by a free-flight model ; most claims submitted to the AMA are supposedly for "trip and fall" type accidents ; deaths from RC models that I know of have come from
[ul][*] A helicopter, just last year (flown by someone who was just newly signed off ?)[*] A trainer flown by an eldery gentleman who lost sight of the model in the sun, didn't think to throttle back, and hit himself in the chest.[*] A 60 sized pattern plane that hit 11 year old Adam Kirby due to interferece and a badly programmed "failsafe hold".[*] A "Flying lawnmower" that was flown at a sporting event (Shea stadium) and flew into the crowd[*] A small pylon racer that hit a uy who was inside a pylon cage at the time.[*] etc.. similarly for serious accidents .. giant scale with no failsafe, and so on.
[/ul][*]So, if you want to charge based on higher insurance costs, consider where the payouts have occured so far, rather than just having a knee-jerk reaction that is based not on facts but rather on the cost of the model.
[/ul]

Ben - if I seriously believed that tiered membership would allow restrictions to be dropped or lowered, I would be all for it too -- but take a look at DB's handiwork for the last few years and you will see that he's all about adding restrictions without any factual data to back him up, not about reducing restrictions.

YMMV.

jetflyer

My Feedback: (5)

Bob,

Has the city of Austin granted the club exclusive flying privileges? If so then MAAC members can fly at the field. See AMA doc - http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-Files/911.pdf

If not, then you have a bigger problem as then anyone can then fly at your field and according to the same doc you are NOT responsible for other (non-AMA) fliers actions.

JR Gautreaux

bcovish

My Feedback: (8)

JR

What about the turbine waiver? How do you get one not being an AMA member?

jetflyer

My Feedback: (5)

Bob,

When I spoke to MAAC they have their own turbine waiver. And since AMA doc 911 does not exclude any aircraft type, I'd say as long as you have current MAAC turbine waiver you would be fine. One other important point of interest, MAAC's member insurance coverage is primary where AMA's has always been secondary. Seems that AMA could take some schooling from MAAC on that subject. I think people might be more supportive of the AMA if the insurance coverage was made primary instead of secondary.


JR Gautreaux

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

I just called MAAC, it's not a waiver, it's called a "letter of proficiency" all you have to do is have a member of their jet turbine board sign one, and you are good to go at AMA fields in the US. She forwarded me a copy of the document and I've put it at www.my87.com/letter.doc

This is very encouraging information.

Sean

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

For more information contact andrew caholic I think he's a member here ?? Ajcoholic?? I got his home phone number, but let's see if he can be dragged into this thread for some info?? I also have an email address for him.