gluing the stabs
03-21-2005, 06:32 AM
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RE: gluing the stabs
I usualy put the wing on first. Then I put the horizontal stab and vertical stab on and line them up before glueing. Line of sight from the rear of the model gets you very close. If the stab platform is correct and no sanding is required then I use white glue or 45 min epoxy to glue the stabs in place. Use pins, tape or other to hold securly while glue cures
JEB
JEB
03-21-2005, 09:37 AM
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RE: gluing the stabs
Have a look at this approach to jigging for alignment. Inexpensive and very effective:
http://winshipmodels.tripod.com/building_tips.htm
http://winshipmodels.tripod.com/building_tips.htm
03-21-2005, 05:44 PM
#4
RE: gluing the stabs
What I usually do is:
Mount the main wing.
Block/jig the fuselage until the main wing has the proper incidence called for for that plane. This USUALLY 0 degrees on the main wing and 0 degrees on the horizontal stab, but can vary depending on the plane.
Then I PIN the horizontal stab in place and check the incidence and is it parallel to the main wing.
Correct (sand/shim ) the horizontal stab as needed and epoxy in place using 30 minute epoxy.
When the horizontal stab is dry, I take a 30/60/90 plastic triangle I have cut a corner from on the 90 degree side, and fit the verticle stab. Once I am satisfied with the fit, I epoxy the verticle stab in place with 30 minute epoxy. I use masking tape from the tips of the horizontal stab over the top of the verticle stab to hold it in position until it dries. (Make sure you recheck the orientation with the triangle after placing the tape in position )
This may seem like some extra work, but I have found that many kits (and some ARF's) do not have proper incidence between the main wing and the horizontal stab.
Mount the main wing.
Block/jig the fuselage until the main wing has the proper incidence called for for that plane. This USUALLY 0 degrees on the main wing and 0 degrees on the horizontal stab, but can vary depending on the plane.
Then I PIN the horizontal stab in place and check the incidence and is it parallel to the main wing.
Correct (sand/shim ) the horizontal stab as needed and epoxy in place using 30 minute epoxy.
When the horizontal stab is dry, I take a 30/60/90 plastic triangle I have cut a corner from on the 90 degree side, and fit the verticle stab. Once I am satisfied with the fit, I epoxy the verticle stab in place with 30 minute epoxy. I use masking tape from the tips of the horizontal stab over the top of the verticle stab to hold it in position until it dries. (Make sure you recheck the orientation with the triangle after placing the tape in position )
This may seem like some extra work, but I have found that many kits (and some ARF's) do not have proper incidence between the main wing and the horizontal stab.
03-21-2005, 06:49 PM
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RE: gluing the stabs
ORIGINAL: Campy
Block/jig the fuselage until the main wing has the proper incidence called for for that plane...Then I PIN the horizontal stab in place and check the incidence and is it parallel to the main wing.
Block/jig the fuselage until the main wing has the proper incidence called for for that plane...Then I PIN the horizontal stab in place and check the incidence and is it parallel to the main wing.
03-22-2005, 09:00 AM
#6
RE: gluing the stabs
I use pieces of 2x4 and scrap balsa under the fuselage to get the fuselage level front to back and side to side (as it should look when the plane is flying). Do not use the landing gear as the LG may be off slightly - you need to block the fuselage itself. The"eyeball" method is NORMALLY close enough for our needs. Then put your incidence meter on the main wing and continue to add/remove shims as needed until the main wing reads 0 incidence (or whatever incidence is called for). The main wing and the horizontal stab must have the correct angles of incidence for the plane to fly properly, even if the fuselage is not level front to rear (rare ).
Now, with everything still blocked up, put "T" pins through the horizontal stab and pin the stab in place, or in the case of most ARFS, slide the horizontal stab into the opening. Now with the main wing at 0 degrees (or what ever is called for), put a small level on the horizontal stab. The small level should be at 0 degrees in all instances.
If the stab is not at 0 degrees, you will need to sand/shim until it is at 0 degrees. While you are doing this also make sure the horizontal stab is parallel to the main wing. Sight from the tail of the plane forward. The amount of daylight showing under each tip of the horizontal stab and the main wing should be the same. You will also need a piece of string to make sure the distance from each tip of the horizontal stab to the tip of the main wing is the same length.
One everything is ok, remove the pins, or slide the horizontal stab out, and epoxy the horizontal stab in place. Recheck the distance to the main wing tips with the string and adjust as needed.
Let dry.
Now, with everything still blocked up, put "T" pins through the horizontal stab and pin the stab in place, or in the case of most ARFS, slide the horizontal stab into the opening. Now with the main wing at 0 degrees (or what ever is called for), put a small level on the horizontal stab. The small level should be at 0 degrees in all instances.
If the stab is not at 0 degrees, you will need to sand/shim until it is at 0 degrees. While you are doing this also make sure the horizontal stab is parallel to the main wing. Sight from the tail of the plane forward. The amount of daylight showing under each tip of the horizontal stab and the main wing should be the same. You will also need a piece of string to make sure the distance from each tip of the horizontal stab to the tip of the main wing is the same length.
One everything is ok, remove the pins, or slide the horizontal stab out, and epoxy the horizontal stab in place. Recheck the distance to the main wing tips with the string and adjust as needed.
Let dry.
03-22-2005, 03:53 PM
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RE: gluing the stabs
One everything is ok, remove the pins, or slide the horizontal stab out, and epoxy the horizontal stab in place. Recheck the distance to the main wing tips with the string and adjust as needed.
Let dry.
Let dry.
03-23-2005, 08:45 AM
#8
RE: gluing the stabs
Yes, the opening for the stab MUST hold the stab in the proper position before you glue it in place.
The opening for the horizontal stab (or the section of the fuselage it sits on ) will most likely need small shims to get the horizontal stab level.
FWIW - I use flat wood toothpicks to shim with. I put a THIN coat of vasoline on the covering of the stab, then insert the toothpicks as needed to get the horizontal stab in position. At this point I put some thin CA on the joint between the toothpicks and the fuselage to hold the toothpicks in place. The vasoline prevents the CA from adhering to the covering.
After the shims are tacked in place I remove the stab and clean the vasoline off. I also go over the part of the toothpicks that will join with the horizontal stab and the rest of the opening with some alcohol on a q-tip to remove any vasoline that is on them. Then I permanently CA he shims in place. Now the horizontal stab can be put back in with epoxy.
The other option is to hold the stab in place with some blocks underneath the low side of the stab to make it line up properly. The down side to this is you now have a gap between the horizontal stab and the fuselage. This gap, besides looking like crap, is not going to provide a strong joint.
Once you have the horizontal stab installed correctly and everything is dry, installing the vertical stab is easy.
The opening for the horizontal stab (or the section of the fuselage it sits on ) will most likely need small shims to get the horizontal stab level.
FWIW - I use flat wood toothpicks to shim with. I put a THIN coat of vasoline on the covering of the stab, then insert the toothpicks as needed to get the horizontal stab in position. At this point I put some thin CA on the joint between the toothpicks and the fuselage to hold the toothpicks in place. The vasoline prevents the CA from adhering to the covering.
After the shims are tacked in place I remove the stab and clean the vasoline off. I also go over the part of the toothpicks that will join with the horizontal stab and the rest of the opening with some alcohol on a q-tip to remove any vasoline that is on them. Then I permanently CA he shims in place. Now the horizontal stab can be put back in with epoxy.
The other option is to hold the stab in place with some blocks underneath the low side of the stab to make it line up properly. The down side to this is you now have a gap between the horizontal stab and the fuselage. This gap, besides looking like crap, is not going to provide a strong joint.
Once you have the horizontal stab installed correctly and everything is dry, installing the vertical stab is easy.
03-23-2005, 02:56 PM
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RE: gluing the stabs
AAAAAAAHA...Now I got it. The secret is to use those toothpick shims with thin CA. WOW...That would've helped me so much to know when I did mine. Thx a lot campy...this info is really helpful.
I still don't get how you use the T pins though. Is that in case where the tail is not covered? Another thing...When you shim it with toothpics do you do it along the whole stab?...or just put them in key places? What do yo do to make it look pretty afterwards if there is a bunch of toothpics in there that are really visible?
P.S. What's a 30/60/90 triangle?
I still don't get how you use the T pins though. Is that in case where the tail is not covered? Another thing...When you shim it with toothpics do you do it along the whole stab?...or just put them in key places? What do yo do to make it look pretty afterwards if there is a bunch of toothpics in there that are really visible?
P.S. What's a 30/60/90 triangle?
03-23-2005, 06:51 PM
#10
RE: gluing the stabs
ORIGINAL: strulag
AAAAAAAHA...Now I got it. The secret is to use those toothpick shims with thin CA. WOW...That would've helped me so much to know when I did mine. Thx a lot campy...this info is really helpful.
I still don't get how you use the T pins though. Is that in case where the tail is not covered?
>T pins can be used whether or not the horizontal stab is covered
>or not. I use the T pins when the horizontal stab is sitting ON the
>fuselage, not in a slot. I do a lot of scratch building, so often times
>even though it may appear that the horizontal stab is in a slot, it
>actually isn't due to the way the plane is built.
Another thing...When you shim it with toothpics do you do it along the whole stab?...or just put them in key places?
>I try to put them in as much of the gap as possible.
What do yo do to make it look pretty afterwards if there is a bunch of toothpics in there that are really visible?
>To make it look "pretty" again, I trim the toothpicks flush with
>the fuselage side. A new #11 blade is best for the trimming.
>then I use some lightweight filler to fill in any gaps. After that
>drys, I sand the filler smooth and cover the area with matching
>film, or if the plane is painted, paint to match. This conceals
>the "repair" and unless someone looks very closely, they will
>never see it.
P.S. What's a 30/60/90 triangle?
>If you go to a drafting supplies store (some stores have
>these in school/office supplies) it is actually a piece of
>(usually clear) triangle shaped plastic about 1/8" thick,
>6" high and 3"wide. They come in larger sizes also.
>What I do is draw a semi circle about 1" up from the
>corner and 1" on the side and cut it out with my
>scroll saw. Now when I want to check the vertical
>alignment of the stab, I have a recess in the
>triangle that will easily fit over any parts of the
>fuselage that may be sticking/protruding out.
AAAAAAAHA...Now I got it. The secret is to use those toothpick shims with thin CA. WOW...That would've helped me so much to know when I did mine. Thx a lot campy...this info is really helpful.
I still don't get how you use the T pins though. Is that in case where the tail is not covered?
>T pins can be used whether or not the horizontal stab is covered
>or not. I use the T pins when the horizontal stab is sitting ON the
>fuselage, not in a slot. I do a lot of scratch building, so often times
>even though it may appear that the horizontal stab is in a slot, it
>actually isn't due to the way the plane is built.
Another thing...When you shim it with toothpics do you do it along the whole stab?...or just put them in key places?
>I try to put them in as much of the gap as possible.
What do yo do to make it look pretty afterwards if there is a bunch of toothpics in there that are really visible?
>To make it look "pretty" again, I trim the toothpicks flush with
>the fuselage side. A new #11 blade is best for the trimming.
>then I use some lightweight filler to fill in any gaps. After that
>drys, I sand the filler smooth and cover the area with matching
>film, or if the plane is painted, paint to match. This conceals
>the "repair" and unless someone looks very closely, they will
>never see it.
P.S. What's a 30/60/90 triangle?
>If you go to a drafting supplies store (some stores have
>these in school/office supplies) it is actually a piece of
>(usually clear) triangle shaped plastic about 1/8" thick,
>6" high and 3"wide. They come in larger sizes also.
>What I do is draw a semi circle about 1" up from the
>corner and 1" on the side and cut it out with my
>scroll saw. Now when I want to check the vertical
>alignment of the stab, I have a recess in the
>triangle that will easily fit over any parts of the
>fuselage that may be sticking/protruding out.
First take one end of the micro tubeing and cut an angle on it. Now this part takes a little speed and timing. Take a T pin and carefully insert it in the opening of the tip from the CA bottle. You will want to wiggle the pin around a little to SLIGHTLY enlarge the opening. Now remove the pin and insert the micro tubing into opening on the end of the CA tip. Once you have it inserted about 3/4" into the tip, you want about 3" left hanging out of the tip when you cut it off. The micro tubing will allow very precise placement of the CA and easily controls the amount of CA that comes out. If the end of the tubing gets clogged, just cut off about 3/16" and you are ready to go again.
I also suggest using the hard extender tips for your medium CA. If/when the hard extenders clog with CA, put the tips in a tightly capped bottle of acetone for a couple of days - they come out good as new.
03-23-2005, 08:12 PM
#11
RE: gluing the stabs
An easier way is to just cut the tip down an additional amount (a little less than a 1/16"). This gets the I.D. just right so that when you insert the end of the Teflon tubing that's cut at a 45 degree angle about an 1/8-1/4" into the nozzle, it's a very tight fit. The tubing can just stay in the tip (throw the cap away) with little effect on the shelf life.
03-23-2005, 08:13 PM
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RE: gluing the stabs
A caution: whatever method you use to jig the tail surfaces, don't force any parts into position. If you do, they will move after being taken out of the jig, and be crooked anyway. Better to block the stab in position, tack glue, and then fill any gaps with shims carefully sanded to fit.
Also, be sure the fuselage is stiff before you glue the tail on. Not a problem with ARFs. But when scratch- or kit-building, if the fuse hasn't been fulled planked, it can still twist.
Also, be sure the fuselage is stiff before you glue the tail on. Not a problem with ARFs. But when scratch- or kit-building, if the fuse hasn't been fulled planked, it can still twist.
03-24-2005, 04:59 AM
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RE: gluing the stabs
Thanks guys for all the help...especially campy for all the long lessons. I learned a lot from reading this thread (a few times 
)
)
