dwsc

My Feedback: (81)

I am getting ready build a giant sweetand low and want to do something differrent,, cover with koverall, and paint my own scheme , how user friendly is this stuff, need all the info I can get

doug

GrnBrt

My Feedback: (5)

Koverall is great stuff and really shrinks down like a drum. Now the draw back, no glue on it so you have to buy some brush on glue that SIG makes and brush it on everywhere you plan on having the covering stick. The covering itself goes on quite well and I have had very good results with it. It's time consuming but well worth the effort for that cloth scale look.

Miniair

My Feedback: (1)

You may want to look at super coverite, pre-glued, accepts paint very well and shrinks really good.

RCPilot100

My Feedback: (4)

You can use Sig Stix It or Balsarite for your adhesive to get the Koverall down. The stuff is wonderful to work with - nothing comes close to the way it shrinks. I have a Spacewalker that I covered 10 years ago and it still looks like new. BUT - you need to go to the SIG website and read what is involved in the whole process - nitrate dope is used initially on the airframe and to seal the Koverall after it is on the plane. From there you can put whatever paint on you like. If you want that kind of finish - fabric -and are willing to take the time, it is the way to go. If you want flash, use Monokote and find someone that can cut vinly graphics for you.

Dan

wolf152

My Feedback: (13)

Has anyone tried using polyurethane as an adhesive?


wolf152

dwsc

My Feedback: (81)

I was in a local hobby shop and was looking at the stix it and the dope is nitrate dope and butyrate dope the same or is it different

how far will a can of ssstix it go and how much will the dope cover

Rodney

Another good source for the fabric finish is any of the Tex's, i.e. Solartex, Colortex, Worldtex etc. They all come with the iron on glue already applied. Another real good and inexpensive covering is Ceconite from Aircraft Spruce and Specialties but, again, you have to provide your own glue. The tex's all come prepainted but you can paint over them readily. The Ceconite is a pure white fabric which you must paint. Bottom line, least expensive is Ceconite and next least is the tex's. Rod

dwsc

My Feedback: (81)

I found the anser tto the above questions

doug

scratchonly

I use water based satin poly all the time. brush it wet around the perimeter using a half inch flat brush; when absolutely dry run a medium heat sealing iron over the glued area. shrink with medium hot iron. seal cloth with 1 or 2 coats of same poly. I have also sealed with 50-50 mix of poly and latex color. This starts the color base and saves weight. I use brushed on latex for all my painting. Besure to do some practicing.

Zero

My Feedback: (42)

I use Koverall on all of my big birds. I first apply several coats of thinned Non-Tautening Butyrate clear dope (I know the directions call for nitrate however I do not use nitrate) on the wood sanding lightly in between. The dope is actualy tan in color however it dries clear. I prefer Randolph products. I order them from Aircraft Spruce and I buy it by the gallon for around $40 shipped. Note that a gallon will do eight to ten big birds so the cost is cheap. Thinning with plain old Home Depot lacquer thinner. You will need to have a retarder also. Where ever you get your clear dope also get your retarder. I mix the dope and thinner 50/50 and then add enough retarder to allow the dope to dry slowly. About 1 minute or so. Trial and error so test it on a scrap piece. Once I am happy with the surface I cut and apply the Koverall. Use butyrate dope around the edges and allow to dry. Drying time varies as to the amount of retarder you add. After the edges are dry, shrink the covering to fit. Apply several more coats of thinned dope on the fabric. I then mix thinned dope with baby powder until it is a milky gray color and I am still able to brush on a coat or two. This will help fill the weave of the fabric. If you want the weave to show skip this step. Once dry I then sand it smooth and apply as many coats of dope as I want until I get the finish I want. After all of that simply apply a couple of coats of auto primer (Auto Zone carries a line of spray can scratch and dent primer which works great) sanding in between. OnceI am happy with the final surface I use whatever paint I want to. The above seems like a lot of work and it will be a little heavier than monokote however it is not that much work and most of it can be done in one good day and you will be able to make it any way you want.
Good Luck

Square Nozzle

My Feedback: (1)

Zero, do you let the dope out gas prior to putting on the primer? I'm covering with Koverall and nitrate dope. Next step is a coat or two of Stits Poly brush for opacity prior to the finish coats of White Stits Poly tone. The Stits people warned me to let the dope sit for several days, at least till you can't smell it anymore. Apparently the vapors from the "uncured" dope can push the primer layer off or at least cause bubbles under the primer.

Zero

My Feedback: (42)

John

I would follow the Stits information. I personally have not used Stits. I do know that I can still smell the dope after several weeks however I believe that you can smell almost any paint if you smell it close enough.
Good Luck
Fred

Stickbuilder

You really need to allow the dope to outgas before application of any other part of the finish. I use Nitrate dope to apply and to seal the Koverall, and like to allow the Nitrate ot gas for a couple of weeks before aplication of the primer. I too, use automotive primer, and either single stage, or multi stage automotive finishes. They work like a champ.

To the post that asked about the difference between Nitrate, and Butyrate dopes, The Nitrate must not be applied over Butyrate, but you can apply Butyrate over Nitrate. The Nitrate provides a better bond than does the Butyrate, and Nitrate has a higher shrink factor as well. The shrink factor need not be a consideration when using Koverall, since the dry heat shrinkage of this Woven Dacron fabric is so high. You can crush most structures by just using a heat gun.

Bill, AMA 4720

Square Nozzle

My Feedback: (1)

Fred, Bill, thanks for the response. I certainly will wait at least the two weeks. I'm well past that now but only because I'm waitng for my recent order of simulated rib stitching to come in. Then I'll be adding rib tape over the stitches and more dope. As for smelling the dope fumes, my imagination lets me detect dope odor on planes that were covered a year ago .

Stickbuilder

I am currently doing a 1/5 scale WACO. I have done several of these, and only use Koverall. Here is a shot or two of the covered fuselage. Remember, this thing as nothing but one big compound curve. some inside curves (wing root) and all the rest are outside curves. Stuck down with nitrate, two coats of 50/50 nitrate thinner. More to come...

Bill, AMA 4720

Stickbuilder

Here's a 11 year old covering job. Koverall put on with Nitrate, and finished with Butyrate. Still looks and performs as good as new.

Bill, AMA 4720

Jim Messer

My Feedback: (2)

For 30 years now, I have used nothing but Ceconite fabric. I use thickened nitrate dope to glue it to the airframe. Then I heat shrink and apply three coats of nitrate dope, 50/50 thnned with laquer thinner. From there, I go with latex paints brushed on with a good foam brush.

Go to My Gallery (Jim Messer), and all of the planes that you see there are covered and finished in this manner. The finish will stay fresh for several years - no wrinkles ever.

SIG Koverall is just another form of Ceconite - a heat shrinkable dacron fabric.

woodbutcher

Your gallery of planes is incredible! The beautiful craftsmanship shows.

I love using Koverall and have wondered about Ceconite. Is Ceconite a heavier form of this fabric ? Thanks.

wiz310

Jim, I must really congratulate you on your choice of craft (all except the traumahawk that is) and your obvious craftsmanship in building them. My type and size of aircraft and my style of building..I can only aspire to be half as good as you.
Cheers Wiz.

Jim Messer

My Feedback: (2)

woodbutcher: Ceconite, Koverall, and Stitts Polyfabric are all pretty much the same. They come in different weights, and the three vary from 1.6 to 1.8 oz./sq. yd., not a whole lot of difference between one another.

If you are really interested in saving money, go to Aircraft Spruce & Specialties and ask for their non-certified 1.8 oz. dacron fabric that is just as good as any of the above, but only costs about $3.50/linear yard, which is 66" wide.

woodbutcher & wiz: Thanks for the nice comments about my assortment of models. Every one of them is my own design, built from scratch. I currently have nine of those biggies hanging in my garage. I concentrate on civilian planes because of the problems associated with retracts, and as I get older, that is what I like to fly anyway.

I designed the "Traumahawk" before Piper had any production planes produced, from 3-view drawings that they sent to me. I pointed out several problems to their engineering dept. that showed up in the model, the worst was fishtailing; a problem that they already knew about from their prototype aircraft. Yet, they did nothing about it. They said it was caused by not having a nice fillet between the wing and the fuselage. Unlike the old reliable J-3, if Piper ever made a "lemon", the Traumahawk was it!

Cheers to all.

Stickbuilder

Jim, It seems as though the factory engineers don't like to have the mistakes that they make pointed out to them. I tried to do that once, and got absolutely nowhere. There is a post concerning the difference between scratch building and plans building in the Clubhouse Forum. Piper Chuck is saying that there is no such thing as plans building, and that it is all scale building (liberal paraphrasing used there). You might wish to make a contribution to that forum.

Bill, AMA 4720

Stickbuilder

I have just been reading of the problems that some are having when using the various plastic (mylar) coverings. I wonder why these guys have not been willing to spend a little more time, and have a better covering job? Or at least have a covering job that stay's in place.

Bill, AMA 4720

dubflyer

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Jim,

I will be building a 1/3 scale sopwith PUP ; and a 1/4 scale Nieuport C28 next year. I would like to use a fabric material I can paint using brushes

1) How much covering material should I order.

2} Where do you get the Nitrate Dope in gallon cans

3) What thinners do you use

4) Using Ceconite ...do you use any glue or is it the Nitrate that sticks the covering to the airframe.

5) Do you use a retardant to slow down the drying of the Nitrate ..if so what brand..??

6) Are there any particular brands of latex to use ar stay away from.

7) How soon after you cover the model do you brush Latex paint on .


Stickbuilder: Nice job on the Waco..........

1) How many pieces of covering did you cut for the Fuse...How does one decide the number of pieces to cut.

2) How does one use the stitching tape and is it stuck on or doped using Nitrate over the wing ribs etc.

3) Is there a pattern one has to follow when using the tape..??

My apologies to all if I am making a complete fool of myself asking these type of questions but since I have read many threads on the subject there seems to be a bias to use some coverings over others. It seems that many folks have had great success with all types of covering but I suspect it is a combination of experience and the correct application of the materials.

Thank you,
Martin

chashint

Aircraft Spruce http://www.aircraftspruce.com/index.html
Looks like an excellent source for chemicals, thanks for the tip.

Stickbuilder

1) the fuse was done in the following manner. I covered everything above the crutch in one piece. I covered each half of the lower fuselage (from the crutch down to the lower longeron in one piece (per side) thenI covered the bottom from the wing saddle to the rudder post in one piece, and the forward part in one piece. That is 5 pieces total.

2) I use Nitrate, and apply the pinking tape over the covering material. You can use small pieces of thread across the rib to give the illusion of rib stitching under the pinking tape.

3)You want to simulate the actual pinking tape which is approximately 1 1/2" wide, so somewhere around 1/4" looks about right on this model. When pinking a seam, be sure to allow the pinking tape to completely cover the seam. As for taping over the ribs, go from just behind the leading edge , to just in front of the trailing edge. Real planes do not use the D-tube wing, and the leading edge is normally tube steel.

Don't ever worry about asking a question about something of which you have no knowledge. None of us was born knowing how to do this. Ask lots of questions. You have to learn from everyone's mistakes. You won't live long enough to make them all.

Bill, AMA 4720

ps. here's my WACO ready for color. (pics taken this afternoon)