ollieholmes

Does anyone know if this hobby has made it over to the U.k? If so what clubs do it?

Wreno

Very popular in Australia, has made it to Denmark, is trying in Germany. Not aware of any UK clubs. Like Germany, there may be some issues with the ships being considered weapons under UK laws. In fact, a 6 foot long battleship was considered a 'concealed weapon" under the (I understand) more lax Australian gun laws until the AUSBG got a specific waiver for model warship combat.

I believe there are some non-combat submariners in the UK, but, of course, that is a different hobby (with some shared "issues").

Where in the UK? I lived in London for a while (taking school there in 89 at QMC) with my wife and kids. Thoroughly enjoyed my time there.

Wreno

ollieholmes

Mmmm. Interesting. Maybe if enough of us in the U.K could get together we could form a club for this hobby.

The topic of dangerous weapons is always an issue when you are dealing with things like this, to be fair if they whanted to limit the amount of dangerous weapons they should do more about firearms not men who enjoy shooting bbs at each others model boats on a Sunday afternoon.

Im from Bedfordshire myself. I do try and avoid London as much as i can.

Wreno

I understand. However common sense and government policy are not usually on the same set of tracks. Frequently not even in the same trainyard (of for that matter, same plane of existence). The good thing is that you do have the experience of the AUSBG to build on when lobbying for a waiver (if necessary), along with that strong penchant the Brits have for histrory that you can trade on. After all, who could resist seeing the Nelson and Hood walloping the Bismark? Or seeing the HMS Welshman running past the Axis on a resupply mission, leaving them in her wake? Or the little Terror guarding a port or bombarding a shore target. This sport keeps history alive and honors those who built and battled in 2 world wars. It also gets youth involved in a direct and personal way. My son, at 15, could tell you more about Captain Lunsdorf and the Graf Spee than many historians, simply because the club allowed him to drive the Spee for a while. He wanted to learn more about her had her history. He actually taught his history teacher a lot she didn't know about early WWII, including the Battle of the River Platte. Most of the class was impressed by his encyclopedic knowledge, except for his buddy Neal that battled with him - Neal knew that the mind was set to "absorb" every time something came up on the History Channel or the internet on the Spee.

Bedfordshire. I seem to recall that being in Eastern England? North of London? I seem to recall going through or near there on one of my frequent trips out of London (either to Cambridge or to Edingurgh). Personally I really enjoyed Greenwich and Llandudno (my family is originally from Wales (before 1300), then to Canterbury (arriving about 1300 - leaving early 1600's), then Virginia (early 1600's), then Texas (mid 1800's). My wife's mother's family came here from Chester in the late 1800's.

Anyway, good luck and God Speed on finding a club or getting your club up and going.

One place you might want to hang out is the BigGunsModelWarship Group on Yahoo.com. Most of the Big Guns guys are there. IRCWCC is the Small/Fast gun Groupe at Yahoo. Oh, and there is an article from the December, 2005, issue of Servo Magazine on the [link=http://www.ntxbg.org]www.ntxbg.org[/link] website you might find interesting (ok, I wrote it, so, of course I have to think you would find it interesting, but, then, ymmv) . ;-)

Wreno

ollieholmes

Thank you all there.

Yes Bedfordshire is just north of London, im about squal distances from London and Cambridge.

Umi_Ryuzuki

We had a man make a trip across the pond, across the country and spend a week building a ship at one of the club members shop.

It's been a few years, but George Peat had tried to get something started in the UK
http://www.nwlink.com/~pfleming/172Clubs.html

If nothing else, you can try contacting him and see if he is still building and wants to sail.

ollieholmes

I will make some enquiries. Thank you for those starters.

What do people think to getting a demonstration set up at a model boat show?

Umi_Ryuzuki

If you have a ship built up and armed, and displays of equipment laid out you will get lots of interest.
However, at all the shows we have attended, most of the people just want to come watch. Typically one person will follow through and build a boat. Every member helps, and even if it is just target shooting at a local pond, the group needs to stay active, or interest will wain.

It helps if you can open your shop and help people get started. This attitude has led to a lot of ships getting built, even if the builders don't continue into combat. When I met George, he was here in the U.S. just to get a boat built up to take back with him. The other option, is to build two boats. Your own armed ship, and a target ship. Let people drive the target ship for you, and they often end up wanting to shoot back.
That's when you pitch the helpful, "Golly, I can help you build up a ship of your own..." speech.

nickcharlton

Hi All,

I am in Surrey and I have not heard or seen of any Clubs near me.

I used to use a boating lake at a park when I was younger, though the last time I went there it was dried up. The place was Stoke Park in Guildford. I think it maybe a bit small for the models people have on this site.

I have a slightly old Nikko Boat, this is what I used to use, I want to get back into the hobby, a PT Boat is on my agenda at the moment, a bit of warfare would be nice too.

Nick

ollieholmes

Thank you all for your advice. I noticed Swampworks have stopped trading, is there any other makers out there that can provide all the bits apart from the radio?

johnmCA72

For Big Gun, there's http://www.bderc.com

JM

Wreno

There is also [link=http://www.battlersconnection.com]www.battlersconnection.com[/link], RC Naval Supply (props and other bits), etc. Many of the combat club sites, like [link=http://www.ntxbg.org]www.ntxbg.org[/link] have links to suppliers. Thare are also lots of individual suppliers (for hulls, for instance) in both Big Gun and Fast Gun. I believe some lists are on the Yahoo Groups (BigGunsModelWarship and IRCWCC, respectively).

I hope you find what you are looking for.

Wreno

ollieholmes

Is it possible to buy a already set up boat? I dont fancy trying to set up the cannons myself.

Wreno

They sometimes come up for sale. If you want to do so, you shoule probably subscribe to and monitor the Yahoo groups: BigGunsModelWarship (for Big Gun) and IRCWCC (for Fast Gun), and watch Ebay. Keep in mind that, if the guns are not legal in the UK, you may not be able to import it. Remember, under Australian law, before a speicfic waiver was granted, a 6 foot battleship with CO2 powered cannon was considered a concealed weapon. UK laws, best I can tell, may have exemptions for certain energy levels (like under 6 ft lbs), and the energy of our guns may well be under that level. I would certainly check it ou with the local authorities first, however. A letter showing an exemption from some authority is a good thing if someone tries to rain on your parade later.

Also, if you buy one ready made, the legal frequencies are different, so you are better off getting one without a radio. There is an unarmed transport (the Grundy) currently on Ebay that could be armed. The AusBG aslo sometimes has ships for sale, and they try to network throughout their group, so you can probably find out from the cluyb secretary who to contact. Be advised that buying a pre-battled ship can have some pitfalls. Remember, they are pre-battled, and are being sold for a reason.

Good luck,

Wreno

ollieholmes

Thank you for all those pointers. I was already aware of the frequancy differences, and i can do the radio installation. I will look into the legal situation on this, but considering some of the stuff i have seen in the field of robotics in the way of pneumatics etc makes me think that it may be possible.

I dont get these concelled weapons, you cant exactly hide a 6ft long warship complete with cannons and the transmitter on your person.

Wreno

Has nothing to do with the actual concealability. Or common sense. The legal definition is the key. I presume it was something like a gun with a specific barrel length, for instance: barrel length of less than, say, 12 inches. And a liberal definition of what constitutes a gun that includes our guns. There are similar distinctions in US law as to what constitutes a pistol or legal rifle.

Just like, in the US, an automatic weapon (machinegun) is defined as a gun which can fire more than two rounds with one actuation. Thus, a 3 barreled non-reloading shotgun, which can fire all three barrels at once, would be considered an automatic weapon. But a gatling gun, which you have to manually crank for each round, is not. Of course, if you add a motor to a gatling gun, it becomes an automatic weapon.

Or, if our turrets were condidered guns, a triple or quad turret would be considered an automatic weapon. In Germany, I understand even some of the Airsoft guns are considered firearms and are illegal (due to restrictions on muzzle velocity or muzzle energy, regardless of how it gets there, air, co2 or explosive powder.

I am not trying to be alarmist, really. But enforcement authorities nowadays tend to be deadly serious. Better to do the homework. If you find the UK is problem-free legally, please let us know over on the Yahoo groups.

Also, safety first. Most clubs require eye protection and defined safety zones/rules and insurance. This hobby is not without danger (it would be easy to put out an eye or tooth). But, of course, that goes with combat and blowing things to bits.

Again, good luck and have fun.

Wreno

ollieholmes

I know you are not trying to put me off. I will look into this and see what i can do. I will be in America this summer, Pennsylvania specificaly and i was wondering if there are any clubs in the area i could go and speek to?

Wreno

The closest Big Gun club is probably the Chesapeake Battle Group. Some of their members hang out on the Yahoo BigGunsModelWarship group, and their web site is linked frome the www.ntxbg.org web site. Next closest Big Gun club is the Mid Atlantic Group. Both have lots of good guys, and I am sure they would be happy to meet with you and discuss the hobby at length. Of course, if you are going to be free the weekend after July 4th, you could come to NABGO (the North American Big Gun Open), here in Texas, just about 1 hr from Dallas / Ft. Worth Airport. Have a weekend with lots of ships and captains to pick the brains of, and we could probably find you at least a cargo ship to drive.

As for Small/Fast Gun clubs, I am sory, but I do not have their locations fixed in memory. Some links are on the NTXBG web site though, if you want to check them out.

Wreno

ollieholmes

Ahh i arrive there on the 22nd June and i am not free untill August 20th. I will get 1 day off a week but i wouldnt be able to go far.

danwilkie

Just as an aside, shouldn't be affected by UK laws if its done on private property (ie a lake belonging to a club)

I'm an airsofter, and I'm sure you'll be familiar with the ongoing legal challenges this hobby faces in the UK. However, the issue lies with replica weapons, if you change it so it doesn't look like a gun, but it still works the same as any other airsoft gun, then its not going to run into issues with the VCR bill.

So in short, there should be no issues with R/C Combat Ships

Wreno

Careful making that assumption. Some laws ban the posession, transport, etc. - regardless of where they are ultimately used. However, glancing at the British laws, you do seem to have some fewer restrictions on firing them if it can be done on private property.

I would have some long, involved, discussions with the local constabulary, and possibly a solicitor, before jumping to conclusions. The law is funny in how you can be blind-sided. Like defining a 6+ foot long, 40+ lb. battleship as a concealed weapon. or, by US law, if the guns were pyrotechnic, as opposed to CO2, an automatic weapon (due to firing 3 barrels at once).

Good luck, and enjoy the sport, and remember - Safety FIRST at All Times.

Wreno

cyclops2

Check also with a government prosecutor.

If he says no problem. Rest easier.

Still can always have some good for nothing mother or father take the group to court just to prove they are saving all the people from the Devil's on Earth.
That can and does happen in the USA.

ollieholmes

Just a few questions:
What kind of pressures are you guys running?
What kind of muzzle speeds do you get?
What range will the bb's reach?
Do you see many triple gun turrets? I can imagine they are popular on some of the bigger ships.
Whats the range of weights ships go from to?

Wreno

Just a few questions:

What kind of pressures are you guys running? Max from CO2 bottle is (depends on club rules) about 140-150PSI. Throttled down to 65-105PSI in the accumulators.

What kind of muzzle speeds do you get? Most clubs have a maximum penetration test requirement instead of muzzle velocity. (ours is no more than 2" of a specific Dow brand styrofoam). However, reportedly about 165-185 fps

What range will the bb's reach? We fire 4 calibers, BB to 1/4" ball bearings. Range is a complex issue - to complex for the time I have here. However ricochets can easily sting (or put out an eye) at 60 feet.

Do you see many triple gun turrets? Yes. I can imagine they are popular on some of the bigger ships. Whatever the prototype had is what you are allowed The Richelieu and Dunkerque sport quads.

Whats the range of weights ships go from to? Some destroyers (very difficult to build) are probably not much over a pound. Some of the larger ships, once batteries, CO2, and ballast are in, can get to 40-50 lbs.

I might again suggest that you join the Yahoo Group called BigGunsModelWarship if interested in the Big Gun Format, or the IRCWCC group, also on Yahoo, if you are interested in Small Gun aka Fast Gun format. For a discussion of the differences, and answeres to many of your questions, there is an introductory article published in Servo Magazine that is on the [link=http://www.ntxbg.org]www.ntxbg.org[/link] web site.

I do suggest one of the Yahoo Groups. They are free, and active, and have lots on information, including pictures, how tos, files, links, vendors, and a maillist. You will get a much quicker and more thorough response than from here, as only a couple or three of us hang out here at all.

Wreno

ollieholmes

Can someone send me a link to this yahoo group and i will join it and make some enquiries there.
Thank you all for your help.