No_Fly_Zone

Ordered some Nav Flights from FlightLites yesterday and requested shorter length wires to save weight on my new draganflyer. The following is a letter back to me from Jeff Swayze and I thought it was good information to pass along to the rest of the folks here. Thanks!

I'll be adding something to the website to make this more clear, but the items I sell are not meant to be "custom" - that is, it's just like buying something from a retail store. My manufacturer builds hundreds of these kits to my design and then I ship them out. I have unofficially offered custom wire lengths in the past, but I charge $10 to re-work the kit, or $2 per LED. What may not be clear is that I take a kit - ready to ship/sell - and open it up, take out all the wires, cut them, unsolder the old connectors, cut off the shrink tubing, add new tubing and re-solder new connectors. This might not seem like much but when you add up all the time it's significant. I simply don't have this time.


The bottom line is that I will no longer be offering the "custom" modifications I did in the past until I can work out a system with my manufacturer. Once this is done the cost for modification will be determined by him, and I'll simply relay a custom order once it is received. Unfortunately I expect the re-work cost to be significantly higher than what I had been charging.


What I will suggest is that you, the end-user, do the re-work if you're capable of it. I know most modelers are handy with a soldering iron, and it's really not that big a deal to do the steps I outlined above. It's just when someone comes along with an 80-LED custom order that my weekend gets shot and I don't have much to show for it.




Well, that was probably more info than you were bargaining for, but f you can do the soldering yourself I suggest you just take the kits as-is. This way you can custom cut the wires to the exact length you need. If you'd like me to do it for you I'll re-work your kit for $10 additional, but after the message goes up on the website I'll no longer be doing the custom work.


Thanks for your understanding,


Jeff Swayze
Leading Edge Development
http://www.flightlites.com

Sky High

Well, other than creating custom LED assemblies which is labor intensive, the only thing that would have to be done to a standard kit is to cut 12" of wire from the spool for each LED instead of 36" or put another way, simply not use as much wire. How difficult is that? It doesn't seem like that would be too much for the manufacturer to do. It's not so much the added weight of 10 extra feet of wire as much as where to put it on the DF. It seems to me that if more and more orders are being taken for a particular product such as the DF, then a custom kit would be made for it. I don't think any company should assume or expect that the end user has technical skills, knowledge or equipment to modify their products. They should meet the demand for what is needed because, well, that's what they do, isn't it? I don't mind paying extra for something that is custom made and most importantly well made but I don't need or want to be lectured about the process when I'm willing to pay for it.

TheHindmost

Agreed, they should meet the demand--if it's there, that is. Otherwise, the guy was charging too little for custom mods and I thought he made his point reasonably.

But regarding demand...Does anyone know what the size of the DF community in the United States is? I asked DFI once, but I never got a response.

Will

Sky High

Too little or not, I would never say anything like that to a customer or potential customer. We are the reason he is able to go anywhere on the weekends. He just needs to figure out what his time is worth to get it done and charge for it but not complain about it and almost blame us for taking up his time. Welcome to the business world. It's not our fault what the rates are. If I had an employee that made me lose a customer by saying what was said, that person would get their ears burned really bad and maybe even be released!

I offer a premium service and have a firm rate. If a client or potential client can't or won't pay it, then....they don't get it. I don't argue, complain or justify it. The serious clients pay the rate. They have a great product but I could do without the lectures and guilt trips from a company that I'm paying!

I don't think that DF owners are anywhere near the amount of plane and larger helos which I'm sure is what his base customere are. However, if I knew of another potential market to tap into, like the DF, I would certainly make it as easy as I could to be a provider for it. Recognition by branding is one of the most important keys to success in a specialty market and being the first to do it is what will make that a success.

Now, I'm through lecturing because I'm not getting enough and am going to have to charge more for it!

detroitdr

In all fairness to Jeff, I order a bunch of lights / controllers / landing stuff / UV leds / Reds / BLUE / Greens like $500 bucks worth and I was very impressed with his service, response time and keeping me up to date. He did charge me a fee as well to make them custom (12").

Overall I guess we would have to understand that it does take a long time to do, and we are not the major market....

I'd rate his business a 9 out of 10.

detroitdr

Sky High

detroitdr, your order must have been that 80 LED project he mentioned. So you're the cause of all of this! You wore him out with that order!

There's no doubt he has a great product and is very knowledgeable, that is a fact. I got exactly what I needed and it works great. I would recommend his products to anyone based on their performance and ease of use. This discussion is about his presentation, at least from my perspective. What was even more ridiculous was when he mentioned the manufacturer charging even more to perform custom work like, how do you like that! Like it's a punishment to us. If I had a great product and/or service and paying customers lined up for it, I would definitely be meeting the demand but I would also definitely be getting paid what was deserved for it. Whatever I had to do to make it work would be behind the scenes and transparent to the paying customer. If he thinks he's not getting compensated enough, he needs to increase the rates but don't blame us or make us feel guilty for it. If customers think the rates are too high, then they won't pay and the problem will take care of itself and go away. The serious ones will pay and everyone will be pleased. It's as simple as that! I just think he should charge what it's worth to him to perform the work and if he doesn't want to do it or can't for whatever reason simply say I can't offer custom work because I'm just not set up to do it mechanically, fast turnaround or whatever. Like I said earlier, I will pay whatever is required for quality work. It's like saying, now if I give you this product or if I perform this service, you will have to pay. No kidding, that's a given! That's no different than custom work. I think he assumes that everyone wants extra work for next to nothing or for free. In other words my impression is that he has had to explain to those types of customers that it does cost extra for custom work. Yes, there are those out there that just don't understand the concept of more work, more cost. What he does is very specialized and labor intensive and he should be compensated accordingly. When I say I want these lights and I want them to function like this, then just tell me how much and that's it. Unless I complain about the price or ask what is involved for that cost, don't volunteer all of that extra information. I expect custom work to cost more and am willing to pay for it. We as customers don't need to hear about all of the behind the scenes activity unless we specifically ask about it. I can't believe that I have gone this far talking about this. Usually when someone complains about doing the work that they offer, I just say thanks and go somewhere else and spend my money. Overall, Flight Lites offers a top quality product for a very good price!

TheHindmost

I definitely see your point Sky High...It should be transparent to us. It sounds like he was charging too little for custom work in the first place, set some expectations (rightly or wrongly) that he couldn't meet, at least not profitably, and then felt the need to explain himself. But I agree: Having re-read what he wrote, it is unprofessional. Just say, "Our rates and turnaround time for custom work have increased. Please contact us with your request to receive a quote and schedule. For fast turnaround, we recommend that customers make their own modifications. Some guidelines for doing so can be found here." And then just post a quick how-to PDF.

Will

Sky High

Thanks but I hated to have to say all of that but because someone else experienced it and openly discussed it, I just couldn't hold back. I got a similar response about a month ago and just didn't quite know how to respond, so I didn't. It's all about principle with me and with today's market with the internet and fierce competition, I think someone should take advantage of every piece of that market that they can get and I just gave my opinion. It's his business to run though and I'm just trying to help him out. Not that he needs my help. He is not a bad person at all, I just don't understand his logic. He spent alot of time with me on the phone and through e-mail about my custom work then and hopefully another in the making. I just didn't think some of the comments about taking up his time was appropriate when talking to a paying customer. He seemed a little frustrated about the time he took with me because I was very specific about my needs and asked alot of questions because I'm not an electrician and don't understand all the intricacies of circuits. It's not really necessary to know details when buying a kit because it's plug and play. But for custom applications, I need to know specifics. But like I said earlier, that's what you do when you have a business, isn't it? Take time with your paying customers!? Once all that's out of the way though I just order what I need now that I understand how it works with not many, if any questions. That's what I do. I explain to my clients if asked about my services and from then on they know what they are getting and how it works and there are no issues from then on. It should be that easy.

detroitdr

I'll agree that perhaps his approach was too direct. (Yes that was my order) Indeed he didn't need to explain it all... a simple I can not provide that service level going forward at $10. We will be charging $x per led to custom size the wire would have been better.

But in my life.... the one thing I've learned is that we ALL have things going on in our PERSONAL life and perhaps on that day.... someone died in his family, or he lost his full time job or whatever... so I just hope we ALL can remember that and YES it doesn't excuss his "curtness" in responding.

my 2 cents....

Moe3754

My Feedback: (14)

This is crazy complaining to customers about a little extra work,when I ordered mine he said it would be extra and I told him what ever was fair to him and it did not matter to me,but if he is going to whine like that just buy them and send them to me I will fix them for you at no charge just pay shipping,you see I am a electrician and it is not rocket science to shorten wires.And most of all a manufacture charging more for less wire sound a little fishy to me.I am getting out of rc as soon as I can liquidate my Heli's but would still be glad to help you guys out.

detroitdr

Again not to "defend" him... but here's more food for thought....

If his manufacture needs an order of min 200 leds to charge him $2/led (Values are just examples!) and he has stock right now, then to ask him manufacture to run let say only 50 leds at 12"... then yes cost would be higher....

Also remembering that 12" length he wouldn't be selling a lot of so I wouldn't pre-make them either....

AGAIN not to defend him... just a different way of looking at cost of goods.

Sky High

I hear both of you. Moe, the part about charging more for less wire confused me too. But when I asked him about that he then told me that he outsources and that they make 36" wired kits. So, when someone orders and wants any custom work, it means he is going to have to alter the kit. That does take time and knowledge and that is what he is charging extra for and I'm willing to pay to have it done. It made perfect sense after he explained it.

My issue is not whether he chooses to offer custom work or not, that's his choice, but if he does, then I just don't need all that extra information that we're all talking about. It's just not necessary. Again, whatever is not working for him needs to be fixed behind the scenes. I have to say that this thread is getting ridiculous and it's nothing personal against him, it's business. If he just did better with PR, then he would have a perfect business. I don't think I would have the patience in retail myself because of all that comes with it. But you have to commit or not commit and not go halfway. So, I guess the final question is this. If we are willing to pay for the extra effort, then what's the problem? It's usually the customer that does the complaining. I really hope something positive comes out of all this.