intrim

Hello all

I am tuning up the new motors I received today and the thread that lacy directed us to some time ago talks about advancing the motors 30 degrees clockwise. I guess this is because the aircraft the motor was going in had clockwise rotation. My question is .How to treat the counter-clockwise
motors? . Do I just advance the motors 30 degrees in the opposite direction. In other words looking at the bottom of the motor I'll retard the motor 30 degrees but since it is a counterclockwise rotation it will really be advancing?


thanks, Michael

intrim[8D]

laceycopter

Sorry just saw the post.
Yes advance it in the direction of rotation.
Make should to check the current draw of the motor then advance it and check again...if it draws more you went to far.
more current draw can cause the brushes to arc and shorten motor life...28 to 30 degrees should be about right.
I have much more power now and and about 75 flights on these motors. I change them after about 100 flights.
I'm also using 2000 Mah and 2100 Mah batteries and can get close to 18 min flights if I don't fly it real hard.
Good Luck and Happy Flyin,
Lacey

Sky High

Intrim, do you have the new motors from DFI? What is advancing the motors?

intrim

Thanks Lacy

For setting me straight on the timing. I thought I was correct but wanted to be sure. Well I do notice a big improvement in power.straight up acceleration from a hover is like my gas heli. I got so tired of problems cropping up with my boards, I think it was all related to the shaking I put my poor DF's through because of taping the blades. Trying to maintain proper balance seemed to take most of my time. So now its either CF blades or the black Pegasus with no tape. I have them up on one spacer and I honestly have not had a problem with them folding up and I have, at times really put them through the paces. I have been spending more and more time flying with ti off. The more practice the better I get. We have an American Legion hall in Napa and I fly In the big hall often which is alot of fun and the vets really love the Df. I fly through the hall and into the kitchen and then straight into the bar area , down the bar over the heads of the guys setting there to a landing pad the members built for me on top of one of televisions. The street light was out in front of my house for over 2 months and at night it is black and everyone knows the best time to fly is when there is no wind. In napa that is between the hours of midnight to about three am. I still use my photons because they are so damn bright they hurt your eyes. they can be seen for miles especially the blue. at 100 feet altitude when the blue flashes it lights the entire street in one big blue flash just as if you painted the street bright blue. I have been using my own approach to night flying. I still believe in my heading orientation motor cap protectors and the ball in front is fluorescent orange and I still use the UV photon pointed at the ball and I sware there is no distance from which it cannot be seen. especially when set to strobe. Its like the ball is breathing in and out. clipping on a orange photon back wards and setting it to high when the DF is pointed straight away. you can see the big orange ball and behind it is the little orange light. There is no mistaking where I am because I can whip the Df around and see both lights and bring it back. For a while I was doing more flying in the pitch black than in the day. but the neatest thing is how well the Df can maintain an altitude. I do figure eights at night and when I turn and come back down the street The Df flys right by at about 12 feet and doesn't go up or down more than about 2 or three inches in about 80 feet. what a difference from the beginning when I thought there had to be something wrong because I felt I was flying a yo-yo, not a helicopter. We all have come along way from about 8 months ago. I have to start video taping some of this stuff so some can see just how well some days have gone. Everyone talks about in ground effect outbalances and how unstable it is but I can hover 2 inches off the ground and fly out my driveway and into the street and back while staying just the 2 inches off the ground for the whole trip. but that is when it is early and no wind. Whats the highest wind you guys have tried to fly in?
I use my cf blades when its windy and Koop in Petaluma will tell you this entire year has been really windy. DFY say don't fly in wind but if your going to fly where you live then get used to it or don't fly. So far the biggest challenge I give myself is when the wind is blowing from everywhere. hard. I throw the df up into it and try to stay at about 10 feet. You feel like your playing some mean video game the way you have to use the sticks just to stay in one place. I think its good practice and it keeps you feeling sharp. Well enough of all this Oh one more secret I will share with you. I might start a new thread later. but now that everyone is using my whiffle balls I am assuming that you paint them just like I do Right? Doesn't it make you mad when you touch the ground and it blows a big piece of paint off and then it looks terrible not to mention when you do repaint if you don't sand it will look crappy anyway. Well the answer is Rubberized undercoating.
if you cover the balls first with that couple of light coats from about 3 feet and let it dry , what you end up with is a finish that look real military like. Sort of Orange peal. then you can primer and then paint any color you want and when you come in contact with something the paint wont even chip off. At least when I discovered it , I really thought I had found the bomb! SkyHigh if you made it to here the answer to your question is Timing, Motor timing that is what i was advancing



Thanks again Lacy for the info. I was beginning to wonder if anyone would respond.

Talk to you all later
Michael
intrim[8D]

Blackdragan

Michael

Are you using the new "Performance Motors" from DFI? The bottoms of these motors are quite a bit different then the original motors, so could you explain in more detail how to advance these motors? Thanks.

laceycopter

What new motor are you talking about?
I was just at the DFI site and I can't find it.
Please somebody tell me where it is listed.
Thanx,
Lacey

Sky High

I've been told these new motors have some cog vibration at low RPMs but once you spool up to hovering speed, that vibration goes away. Why do you have to advance these motors or motors period?

intrim

blackdragon

I must admit that I, Like Lacy am not sure what performance motors you are talking about. I even went back after Lacy stated she had just been on the DFY site and couldnt find them. Maybe we have been up too late but I couldnt find them again. The motors I have must be the antique ones . They say Mabuchi 370, I am also aware of the 9W, but I think their all the same but with custom windings,or different diamater wire, but now you and SKY have my attention. What custom Performance motors are you talking about? please give motor number

michael
intrim

Blackdragan

Michael,

The new motors are not listed on DFI site. You have to call them to get more information or to buy them. I am currently running them on my SAVS. I do not know all the details, however, they are suppose to have better brushes and larger magnets. DFI claims you get better climb out speed and longer life with the new motors. To obtain the best-run time, you should also use the 2100 battery with these motors. I am not sure these motors are for everyone, because the larger magnets in the motors keep the motors or blades from spinning freely like the original motors. When you power up for take off, you have to increase the throttle considerably before the blades will even begin to spin and then it takes even more power to get all the blades spinning at the same time, which can make it difficult to take off. I have had only about 3 flights with the new motors and the 2100 battery and they seem to work fine once you are in the air. Getting all the blades to freely spin up at take off, along with the extra weight of the 2100 battery, I am not sure this is the best set up for everyone. Let me know if you try them. Thanks.

laceycopter

Blackdragan,
Thanks for the information.
I think I'll stick to the stock motors for now I do the break-in, set the timing and use 2100Mah batteries. I have lots of power and get long flights now. Let us know how the new motors work out for you.
Happy Flyin,
Lacey

XStroX

Hi All,

I have my new DF on the way and it should be here later this week (I Hope!). I've seen a few of you talking about changing/advancing the timings on the motors. Could someone explain what that means? I'm wondering if it is somethign I should do to the motors on my DF when it arrives before flying it? Or is it something that will give me more performance down the road but that isn't really necessary. Thanks

Thanks.

intrim

Hello XStroX

Welcome aboard

It is in my opinion that you should do nothing to your NEW DF!. For starters, you will void any warranty issues you might have in the beginning. Just go thru and practice controlling
your new ride. then after the motors are worn out. you can do a break in to the brushes and advance the timing 28-30 degrees into the direction of the blades. Don't even worry about any of this stuff right now. If you read enough posts your going to find out that not everyone has a great relationship with DFY. Some even borderline strong dislike. All I'm saying is don't give them any reason to think that your problems are contributed to either modifying or tampering with or crashing. If someone bought a car from you and went out and modified the motor and it was causing operational problems. Would you want
to fix it for them at no cost? No one would. I have had problems with DFY in the past and their like all companies that are growing. Sometimes things don't get handled in the correct way. What I did was after I bought my Heli, I called them and introduced my self just to let them know I received it. When I call back for something I ask for the same person to develop some kind of relationship with them so I'm not treated like a number. There is a post called Pump up the power in there you will find links to several different Mods.
good luck with your flying. Also to note. Reading the fundamental or top ten things to keep from crashing should be mandatory reading. and we have SkyHigh to thank for it all.
He has gone to allot of trouble putting some of these posts together as instructional material
so take advantage of it and use the simulator software. You can crash all day for FREE!!!!

intrim

Sky High

Thanks intrim. Now, like XStroX asked and I'm asking for the second time, could one of you motor advancing/timing tech heads please explain just what this procedure is? What motor component(s) is/are actually being changed with this adjustment? Thanks!

laceycopter

Guess I'll be the tech head and try to explain it. (I'll see if I can remember my electrical science class)
Ok this is basiclly how our dc motors work.
The permanent magnets create a fixed field in magnitude and position. This field has a shape with a maximum intensity exactly between the magnets (in a 2 pole motor - most DC motors - directly opposite each other). To generate the maximum torque from the motor, the electric field generated by applying current to the windings must be located 90 ELECTRICAL degrees from the center
of the magnet field (90 physical deg. in a 2 pole motor). This is defined as the max. Kt (torque constant - oz.in./A)

What happens in a real motor under load is that the electric field lags the magnet field due to inductance effects in the windings.
The amount of lag varies with load.

So we try to reset the motor timing (brush position) so that at a selected load current,(DF flying) the fields are at the 90 E deg point for max. Kt., and max. magnetic power conversion efficiency. At no-load this will be an advanced position and since it is ahead of the 90 E Deg. point.

By turning the bottom plate on the motor (in the direction of rotation) you are advancing the brushes and that advances the timing to compensate for the lag. Also some motors are advanced from the factory for CCW. that is good for the the CCW motors but not the CW motors.
Since we have been breaking in the motors and setting the timing (always check amp draw before and after) I have not had the wobbles with TI on, all the motors are running with equal load on them at there most efficient piont. I think that makes it easier for the TI to keep up. I also have more power and longer run times.
Well hope that helps answer your question Sky.
Happy Flyin,
Lacey

Sky High

Now that was a detailed answer. Even though I don't fully understand it, it does make sense with my limited knowledge of electric motors. Well, if that's what's involved with maintaining the new motors, that is discouraging. As if there's not enough pre-flight procedures already. Thanks Lacey.

MoBiggz

Intrim, can you provide a link to the photon lights that you are talking about?

Thanks!

XStroX

Sorry to stay off topic here guys. Can anyone give me a link to the top 10 ways to keep from crashing thread? I've tried doing a search and can't find it. Unless that is just a post withing a thread. Thanks

Stro

Sky High

Me too. I don't really know what he's talking about either. Unless it's the Learning to Fly/Preflight for beginners thread in the [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3676146/tm.htm]FAQ[/link].

laceycopter

Sky,
I'm using the (old) standard motors and it is a one time setup. I break in the motors and set the timing when I first get them(before they are installed).
If you follow the directions in the Pump Up the Power thread it's pretty quick and easy, we do this to all our brushed Heli motors. You'll feel the difference on the first flight.
Happy Flyin,
Lacey
P.S. If your not already using the 2000 Mah or 2100Mah batteries....Get Them! The difference in run time and power is HUGE.

intrim

hi mobiggs

here is the link to Photon

Http://photonlight.com/?source =Newsletter

Michael

intrim

Xstrox

Im sorry to have confused you by calling Sky's instructional threads. "The top ten things
to keep from crashing. " You see I was watching David letterman at the same time he was doing his 10 top things. So I stole the words right out of his mouth. The threads I am talking about should be way back at the beginning of our forum. They were done by SkyHigh and it takes you thru proper preflight and how to properly arm it and then set levels. I apologize for not having the thread but I have to run somewhere right now. If Sky is around . He surely can tell you where they are and what they are actually called. Once again I apologize for leading you on a wild goose chase!


Michael
Intrim[8D]

Sky High

I was talking to DFI about the new higher performance motors and they said NOT to adjust the timing on them or you will undo what they have already done.

MoBiggz

Thanks for passing along that info Sky. I ordered a set of 4 high performance motors last week. Hopefully they will show up today.
Now I just have to get my board back from Spectrolutions and I will be good to go.

I also ordered the 10 pin to 3 pin wire from DFI so I can get the pico switch hooked up.

Last but not least I ordered two of the Photon Lights. Do you all just tape them on or something?? I know that you have different NAV lights but for simplicity I decide th check out the photon lights. I am guessing that I will just tape them on.

Sky High

Those lights seem to have alot of cool features. On my DF V Ti Pro I just taped mine right beside the left and right motors under the frame. I also had a nose light right behind the front motor and facing down and a tail strobe/solid just before the rear motor facing down. It's good if these lights have a wide projection range. The LEDs with my navlight kit that I have on my SAVS have a very small field of view and are not nearly as useful for orientation as the keychain lights. The thing I like about keychain lights is that they continue to burn if you land in a tree or any situation that pops the fuse. If it's at night, you'll be able to see where your DF is. Without them, say goodbye to your DF if you were at a considerable altitude when it went down and drifted! That has allowed me to recover mine twice when it went down into a tree at night. The bad thing about these types of lights is that a battery replacement for each one will cost you just under $10.00! Take a look at some of the posts in [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3675950/tm.htm]this thread[/link] to see how my keychain LEDs are mounted.

draganfly.com

My Feedback: (40)

MoBiggz, I would appreciate it if you post your impressions and experiences with the Heavy Duty motors here.

Adam Glatt
Draganfly Innovations