Savage Diff Gears
09-11-2006, 10:29 PM
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Savage Diff Gears
Does anyone know if there are diff gears that are different ratios that will fit in savage diffs?
factory is 13/43 (3.31-1)
I'm hoping to find something in the 4/4.5-1 range.
factory is 13/43 (3.31-1)
I'm hoping to find something in the 4/4.5-1 range.
09-12-2006, 06:32 AM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
You can use the Hot Bodies helical 43T and 10T ring and pinion gears. These will give your final drive (diff gears) a ratio of 4.3:1. See the following links:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJBM3&P=7
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJBM4&P=7
PS: Thanks, TBJ for pointing these out to me! This link helped me out in my search for helical gears; these are supposed to be stronger than the stock straight cut 43T/13T ring and pinion.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJBM3&P=7
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJBM4&P=7
PS: Thanks, TBJ for pointing these out to me! This link helped me out in my search for helical gears; these are supposed to be stronger than the stock straight cut 43T/13T ring and pinion.
09-12-2006, 05:05 PM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
ORIGINAL: ThunderbirdJunkie
.....
I'm wondering why. you change gear ratios via the clutchbell and spur gear.
.....
I'm wondering why. you change gear ratios via the clutchbell and spur gear.
on the spur and cb and keep the same overall ratio.
point being,less load and strain on the trans and mid-shafts.
09-12-2006, 05:09 PM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
ORIGINAL: bam.bam
yeah, is it a direct bolt on?
pricey pieces don't you think?
yeah, is it a direct bolt on?
pricey pieces don't you think?
and Rafiki, the gearing selection for the Savage is VERY limited...it's impossible to gear it HIGH enough to actually take advantage of a 4.30:1 R&P gear ratio.
09-15-2006, 03:55 PM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
hi dude i see you are recomending a hot bodies spiral bevel gear 10 tooth along with the 43 tooth pinoin gear can you tel me how this is fixed to the diff housing as the original 13 tooth bevel gear has a hole for the small pin (dont know what its name )original HPI part is pure cylyindrical where as part recomended has a notch on can any one clarify this B4 i go an get said parts
09-15-2006, 04:30 PM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
Let me see if I understand what you are asking. OK the stock Savage pinion gear has a hole that goes through it when you put the drive cup on the setscrew has a long pin that goes through the cup and pinion gear. On the HB gear there is no hole! Just use a regular setscrew and have it seat on the flat spot on the pinion gear shaft. Is this what you are talking about? I had to do this on my HPI MT1 when I was upgrading to all most MT2SS specifications.
09-16-2006, 07:49 AM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
ORIGINAL: ThunderbirdJunkie
do they actually fit, jim?
do they actually fit, jim?
. I tried to review the dimensions as much as possible to see if they will fit into a Savage diff bulkhead with little of not mods, and this is what I can deduce now:*The bearings that go on each side to the diff cup has the same outside diameter as the bearings on the Savage diff cups. I don't know if the bearings are spaced apart from each other along the axis of the axle cups.
*The ring gear uses the same length screws as the Savage to secure it to the diff cup and the bolt pattern appears to be the same. Whether the pattern is exactly the same, I could'nt determine.
*The ring gear has a raised dias-looking disc on the outside that the Savage ring gear does not. I can see this extension preventing a proper fit into a Savage diff gear bulkhead housing.
*The pinion gear does not have a hole in it to secure the dogbone cup onto. I can see using the HB cup for this pinion as a solution, but I don't know the dimensions of the HB cup (whether or not it will accept a Savage dogbone).
*I don't know the diameter and length of the pinion shaft; those dims are critical to a proper fit into a Savage.
*I don't know the internal dimensions of the HB cup, so therefore I don't know if the spider gears will fit into a Savage diff cup or if Savage spider gears will fit into the HB diff cups.
In all, I don't know if these ring and pinion gears are a direct bolt-on. I held off on buying these gears after I realized that they are for teh HB lightning and not the Savage. Once I can scrap up the $$$, I am considering getting these for $27-$30 just to experiment and mod (if necessary) the Savage to accept these.
09-16-2006, 03:58 PM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
hi 46U yes i see what your getting at but is doing that ( catching the flat spot with a set screw going to be stronger than a set screw right the hole and threaded as standard ????
09-16-2006, 04:26 PM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
I know it works fine in my MT with a TZ in it and I am all so guessing that is how the Lighting is doing it. I think the main reason for the long setscrew is so if it comes lose you do not have a problem right away like you would with the short one. I think if you keep the screw tight it would be OK but have not tied a set up like that on a savage, which is much heaver, then my MT. Keep in mind I am just speculating.
09-16-2006, 05:03 PM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
ORIGINAL: SAVAGEJIM
Well, after revieing the Lightning Hot Bodies manual, I realized that these parts are not a direct bolt-on. I tried to review the dimensions as much as possible to see if they will fit into a Savage diff bulkhead with little of not mods, and this is what I can deduce now:
*The bearings that go on each side to the diff cup has the same outside diameter as the bearings on the Savage diff cups. I don't know if the bearings are spaced apart from each other along the axis of the axle cups.
*The ring gear uses the same length screws as the Savage to secure it to the diff cup and the bolt pattern appears to be the same. Whether the pattern is exactly the same, I could'nt determine.
*The ring gear has a raised dias-looking disc on the outside that the Savage ring gear does not. I can see this extension preventing a proper fit into a Savage diff gear bulkhead housing.
*The pinion gear does not have a hole in it to secure the dogbone cup onto. I can see using the HB cup for this pinion as a solution, but I don't know the dimensions of the HB cup (whether or not it will accept a Savage dogbone).
*I don't know the diameter and length of the pinion shaft; those dims are critical to a proper fit into a Savage.
*I don't know the internal dimensions of the HB cup, so therefore I don't know if the spider gears will fit into a Savage diff cup or if Savage spider gears will fit into the HB diff cups.
In all, I don't know if these ring and pinion gears are a direct bolt-on. I held off on buying these gears after I realized that they are for teh HB lightning and not the Savage. Once I can scrap up the $$$, I am considering getting these for $27-$30 just to experiment and mod (if necessary) the Savage to accept these.
ORIGINAL: ThunderbirdJunkie
do they actually fit, jim?
do they actually fit, jim?
. I tried to review the dimensions as much as possible to see if they will fit into a Savage diff bulkhead with little of not mods, and this is what I can deduce now:*The bearings that go on each side to the diff cup has the same outside diameter as the bearings on the Savage diff cups. I don't know if the bearings are spaced apart from each other along the axis of the axle cups.
*The ring gear uses the same length screws as the Savage to secure it to the diff cup and the bolt pattern appears to be the same. Whether the pattern is exactly the same, I could'nt determine.
*The ring gear has a raised dias-looking disc on the outside that the Savage ring gear does not. I can see this extension preventing a proper fit into a Savage diff gear bulkhead housing.
*The pinion gear does not have a hole in it to secure the dogbone cup onto. I can see using the HB cup for this pinion as a solution, but I don't know the dimensions of the HB cup (whether or not it will accept a Savage dogbone).
*I don't know the diameter and length of the pinion shaft; those dims are critical to a proper fit into a Savage.
*I don't know the internal dimensions of the HB cup, so therefore I don't know if the spider gears will fit into a Savage diff cup or if Savage spider gears will fit into the HB diff cups.
In all, I don't know if these ring and pinion gears are a direct bolt-on. I held off on buying these gears after I realized that they are for teh HB lightning and not the Savage. Once I can scrap up the $$$, I am considering getting these for $27-$30 just to experiment and mod (if necessary) the Savage to accept these.
If the teeth on the helical-cut ring gear are spaced away from the surface of the gear moreso than the Savage's, that's a good thing-the 10t pinion will be smaller, and my guess is that when they designed the original Lightning Buggy, they went off Savage dimensions...the Savage is very 1/8-buggy-ish in design of the drivetrain.
the only thing that has me a bit iffy on the swap is the length of the shank on the pinion.
09-16-2006, 05:53 PM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
If any of you guys want to do some experimenting...
I have learned that the diffs in my Kyosho Mad Force are similar to the Savage diffs. The side gears, spider gears and both types of shafts interchange. The ring gear has the same bolt pattern and the pinion has the same diameter shaft. The O.D. of the Savage ring gear is bigger, but it's the same gear ratio and it bolts to the stock diff cup.
In other words, the Kyosho R&P might work in the Savage. Now MF diffs are weak, but they are interchangeable with the mp-7.5(and the 777 I THINK) buggies, which have a hardened ring and pinion option available.
Anyone have a Kyosho MP, or 777 buggy/truggy that they want to tear apart for some measuring?
Other things also point to the similarity of the diffs. I remember being told that people were doing the four bevel diff mod even before HPI came out with it by using Kyosho parts... Also, Maximizer says that their aluminum diff cup for the HPI Hellfire also works in the Kyosho Mad Force.
I have learned that the diffs in my Kyosho Mad Force are similar to the Savage diffs. The side gears, spider gears and both types of shafts interchange. The ring gear has the same bolt pattern and the pinion has the same diameter shaft. The O.D. of the Savage ring gear is bigger, but it's the same gear ratio and it bolts to the stock diff cup.
In other words, the Kyosho R&P might work in the Savage. Now MF diffs are weak, but they are interchangeable with the mp-7.5(and the 777 I THINK) buggies, which have a hardened ring and pinion option available.
Anyone have a Kyosho MP, or 777 buggy/truggy that they want to tear apart for some measuring?
Other things also point to the similarity of the diffs. I remember being told that people were doing the four bevel diff mod even before HPI came out with it by using Kyosho parts... Also, Maximizer says that their aluminum diff cup for the HPI Hellfire also works in the Kyosho Mad Force.
09-16-2006, 05:58 PM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
I'm working on it now with a chinese Kyosho 7.5 copy...the drivetrains of the two buggies i've heard were interchangable...will let you guys know in a couple hours...
09-16-2006, 06:12 PM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
If this works, it will be yet another reason for me to like that damn raggedy Kyosho even more.
I would do the work myself but I just sealed up my Savage diffs last night and I'm just too lazy to redo them. TBJ to the rescue....
I would do the work myself but I just sealed up my Savage diffs last night and I'm just too lazy to redo them. TBJ to the rescue....
09-16-2006, 06:14 PM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
well, the Redcat Hurricane diffs drop right into my Savage X's bulkheads. Thank both the X and the Redcat Hurricane for having easy-access diffs front and rear, LOL
09-16-2006, 06:23 PM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
Sounds good so far, what about the pinion? I know Savage diff cups work on the Kyosho pinions, as I just checked that one out today by installing one of my old Savage cups on my Mad force.
09-16-2006, 06:45 PM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
dunno about the pinion...it has the flat spot secured by a set screw, but it works iwth the stock pinion.
Within the month they should be carrying whole diffs. too bad the outdrives are too small for the Savvy dogbones, because they're preshimmed and filled w/oil at the factory...
Within the month they should be carrying whole diffs. too bad the outdrives are too small for the Savvy dogbones, because they're preshimmed and filled w/oil at the factory...
09-16-2006, 08:43 PM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=LOSB3535
A little snooping about on Savage Central found me these, and they say they'll work...Chronic...any way you could POSSIBLY tell us if these will work?
A little snooping about on Savage Central found me these, and they say they'll work...Chronic...any way you could POSSIBLY tell us if these will work?
09-17-2006, 06:39 AM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
Yeah. I have to rip the front diff apart in the LST2 today anyway, and I think I have an old Savage diff housing laying around somewhere. It will be later today though.
**If the LST R&P works in the Savage it will be a big kick in the pants for me. I've had endless troubles with the LST diff cups and spiders, and I've had lots of problems with the Savage R&P. I'm gonna be kind of pissed if I could have fixed both problems with spare parts that I already have.
**If the LST R&P works in the Savage it will be a big kick in the pants for me. I've had endless troubles with the LST diff cups and spiders, and I've had lots of problems with the Savage R&P. I'm gonna be kind of pissed if I could have fixed both problems with spare parts that I already have.
09-17-2006, 10:15 AM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
I am just glade to say after over 5 gallons I have not had a problem with my differentials so far. But that does not mean I will not then next time I run. But I am keeping up with this thread so I know which way to go if I do!
09-17-2006, 06:18 PM
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RE: Savage Diff Gears
I don't see how the LST2 diff would be a good alternative. The ring gear is tiny, and the only way I could get it to fully mesh was to shim the pinion so far that there wasn't enough shaft sticking out to attach the cup. The assembled diff is also narrower and would require some heavy shimming. All of the bearings are the same though, and it does bolt in.
