packfan88

My Feedback: (2)

Anyone think they should start researching this or what?

I mean if it works for real cars why not scale it down to rc. You can then get the combustion chamber hotter(faster).
I think its possible.
I also want a V-Twin already...come its been weeks since i first mentioned it and no one has started one yet. j/k.

gunrunner

Are U bored?

AdamB

My Feedback: (9)

I know you're joking, but interesting...

I don't think the ceramic would hold up too well to jolts etc.

Think about it, full size cars/ trucks don't jump as high, slam full speed into walls (by accident), or like my savage flip over 17 times end over end and still be able to drive away with only a few scratches.

Hell, a minor jolt over 5mp will sometimes cause enough damage on the real thing to warrant being totaled.

Wookie

My Feedback: (5)

I remember seeing an article on this recently, though I don't remember where. It was in one of the RC publications somewhere, so I'm guessing there is research going on with this idea.

The upside to composite pistons and sleeves was that you wouldn't have to break in the engine any longer and that you could run the engine much leaner. The composite piston and sleeve would handle higher temps which would allow the leaner running engine. This would also create much more power, higher RPM's and longer run times (due to less fuel used in the leaner engine).

The question is will they be durable enough for the RC environment and will they be cost effective?

I hope so....

BUGGIES_R_US

Actually.. why else do you think Rossi Motors run up to 15 gallons on a piston sleeve?
-ram

packfan88

My Feedback: (2)

gunrunner .....hell yeah im bored ...unemployed remember?

and as far as the engines holding up to "jolts and etc" and durablility factors.

i saw the results of a test, although not very scientific, it proved a point. they coated a sheet of aluminum and bent it. They were able to bend it up to a 180° before it began to flake or crack. I think its not a factor.

then when it goes to cost effective. You can get yout V-8 pistons coated for anywhere from $15+ each. How much you think it possible cost?

they do it on everythig from dirt bikes,snow mobiles,dragsters, and even nascar.

on a normal engine you coat the tops of the piston heads and the top of the cylinder(valves+head). basically anything in the combustion chamber. So because of the make up of these 2-stroke chambers, i guess you'd have to coat the top of the piston, the top of the sleeve, and the bottom of the heat sink/cylinder head.

here are some paragraphs from various website ive been researching this topic with. as i said im bored and unemployed.

"We apply a ceramic/metalic compound to the dome of the piston. This compound protects the piston in two ways. 1. The ceramic compound has a higher melting point than aluminum 2. It conducts less heat (insulates). The (silver colored) ceramic compound reflects heat away from the piston, keeping heat in the combustion chamber (more power) and lowering the temperature of the piston (longer piston life)."

"Bottom line? It protects against corrosion, plus it looks good. In a combustion application it keeps heat where it belongs, which creates better exhaust scavenging. The hotter the exhaust gas is in the pipe, the faster it travels. Hot gas moves faster toward cooler air - the hotter the gas, the faster is moves. Simple really"

"The temperature difference between coated and non-coated applications can be up to 65% heat reduction."

plus tons more info. i contacted one company that does custom coatings and we'll see what he says about cost and possibilities of it happening. ill keep you all updated.

AdamB

My Feedback: (9)

Sounds interesting....

I would guess you'd have to have brand new sleeve and piston that was pre-coated with ceramic. You couldn't just coat your existing sleeve and piston, otherwise the fit would be way too tight... right????

It would be excellent if an after market company or even OEM company made these sleeves for like say the hyper 8 port! I would try it.

BUGGIES_R_US

Another thing. I really dont see the point in bending a ceramic coated anything.
The coating is on the piston head, keeps it from absorbing heat and makes it last longer. OF course ceramics will flake off! The fact that they are brittle is irrelevant.

Also, I dont believe the sleeve is ceramic coated. That would be counterproductive. Ceramics arent very smooth at all and chromium would be the best choice for this applicatioin.
Nice n slick!

-ram

cool head

well i know for sure that itallion engines use a high grade, high silicate content in the pistons. try this test. get some old pistons and strike them with a hammer. a cheap taiwan piston will squish like a aluminum can. the itallion piston will shatter and crack! the taiwan engine will last 2 - 3 gals. the itallion engine can last 10 gallons.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

I think this is already being done by a russian engine maker. If I remember correctly, they produce smaller engines like the .15 size.

Also, I believe that in general practice the piston and sleeve would be manufacutered from ceramic, not coated.

rcflier_gi

My Feedback: (2)

I know in the case of snowmobiles that you just coat the top of the piston and the head. You don't coat the cylinder. The coating gives protection from lean runs and allows you to tune closer to the edge with less chance of a melt down. I have had www.swaintech.com coat pistons from snowmobiles before.

packfan88

My Feedback: (2)

yeah only whats in the combustion chamber. you wouldnt have to bore out the cylinder or anything.
then i got a pm about the heat just warping/deforming the cylinder walls. well the point of ceramics is it will function as a insulation to prevent heat from passing into the bottom of the cylinder or bottom end.
its main function is to keep the heat right there in the combustion chamber.

packfan88

My Feedback: (2)

ok the guys email was about as rude as it gets i shoulda copied and pasted it here but it was something like.

"we run a very professional company and dont care to partake in an experimental and otherwise pointless endeavor."

lol what a jack ass... im gonna sign his email up for all the "free daily ___in your email" i can find.

ill try with some other companies i saw while browsing

Savage Nation

Ditto.....Rossi Black Magic......nuff said!

mglavin

My Feedback: (31)

There is an aftermarket company offering ceramic sleeve assemblies or coatings. I don't recall the name, I'll try and remember. Seems like it was Saturn Hobbies in Florida, or something like that.

packfan88

My Feedback: (2)

i emailed another guy about this
check out what he said

We never coated a piston for the r/c cars. I am not sure it will hold up to a nitro burner. We will ceramic coat the first one free if your willing to take a chance and let us know if it holds up.
On dirtbike cylinder walls we use Nikasil plating (nickel,silicon carbide)

Thanks Mike @ Lukes Racing
724-528-4670
www.lukesracing.com
Shipping address:
Lukes Racing
930 Wheatland rd
West Middlesex Pa
16159

----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
From:
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:37:26

I am a bit of a mad scientist. I was wondering if
you would ceramic coat a piston for me to
experiment with on my r/c nitro car.
here is a link to what an example of one looks
like.

its a 2-stroke engine and the case looks like this


When you ceramic coat pistons, do you also coat the
cylinder walls or anything else?
Well let me know what you think. if it is even possible and what you would charge. Thanks in advance Mike
www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LX

www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LX



anyone got a spare engine they would send him to test it on?
i got a torq .12 sitting around but i think it needs a new piston and sleeve.

vwnut73

I've done it to an old Veco .19 and it works better than stock.There is a company here in So.Cal that will do it.Contact me for info.Mark

hoodiegadoo

oh well, somebody must have pissed in his cheerios that morning.....

vwnut73

What are you trying to say?

AdamB

My Feedback: (9)

Hey, I'm game. I have the stock piston from my .21 Nitro star from my Savage. It is fine, I only changed because I wanted more pwr.

Maybe I'll contact then. Hell, it isn't even that far from me if something goes wrong.

packfan88

My Feedback: (2)

lol yeah adam giev em a call or something. i am going to order the new piston and sleeve for this os .12.
i wonder if you will be able to giev your engine an extra 10% on temperature. that would be awesome....instead of running at 250-260° could bump it up with out harm to 275-280°

FSTFBDY

I dono how old this post is but I was searching for ceramic coatings to see if anybody else tried it or not.

I do ceramic,thermal and powdercoatings myself and just coated my Sirio .18 header. Im gona thermal coat my piston and do a dryfilm on the skirt of it also.. Just figured Id share a pic.





[email protected]
www.cecoatings.com

FSTFBDY

Just a bit more info for some of you you dont use Ceramic Coating on the piston tops you use whats called

CBX POWERKOTE (Cermet Coating Thermal barrier)

Designed for Performance engines running; Nitrous oxide, Supercharged or Turbocharged. For all other applications use CBC2
Creates a hard surface specifically designed for engines running High volumes of fuel and/or high compression ratios
Thermal barrier coating Reduces part temperature. Keeps heat in combustion chamber longer through the power stroke
Increase torque and H.P. Increase combustion chamber efficiency Reduce fuel consumption.

For the Side skirts Im using

TLML DRY FILM LUBRICANT
Extreme pressure bonded lubricant
Solvent based, can be sprayed in very thin films
Reduces friction, galling and scuffing. Increase part life
Aids in cooling parts

TLMB HIGH LOAD DURABLE LUBRICANT
Primarily used to build up piston skirts
Used in very high RPM engines or where very long rods are run
Top coat with either TLML2,TLML or WSX

I can get any kind of coatings you can think of.

Im currenty building a 418smallblock with trin turbos for my 91vert camaro and coating everything. bearings,pistons,turbos,etc. I was bored and figured I do this to Race car parts etc. why not my RC parts also...

rocd

Sweet! Let us know how the coatings work out for you. I think we would all like to do it if it works out for you.
P.S. are you guys seriously getting 15 gals out of an engine?

FSTFBDY

Well I dono if you woul dnotice a POWER DIFF. in somethign this small. but Im sure it would help life of the motor