Boomerang1

More trouble with OF's I'm affraid. We have one in our club who is on our case writing letters etc. He brought up the fire issue of course. What I need to know is how does glow fuel with nitro compare with the jet fuel we are using for flammabilty?

Some technical jargon & numbers would be most welcome. Thanks, John.

digitech

My Feedback: (10)

well nitro burns instantly and most times invissible...
kero takes time to start burning, but when it does good luck..........[:-]

GrayUK

Both will burn quiet nicely but I think you will find that glow fuel is much easier to ignite.
Consider the fact that you need to get the turbine running on gas first before you can run it on kero.
Kero / paraffin is not easy to light.
Do a test place some in a open saucer type container, (safe outside!) and throw a lighted match in to it. I think you will find it will not light.

Paul

Geoff White

Hi,

Just done a bit of research on Wikipedia and found the following -

The flash point of methanol is 11 degress centigrade, for Jet A1(kerosene by another name) it is 38 degress centigrade.

I also looked at the meaning of flash point - 'The flash point of a flammable liquid is the lowest temperature at which it can form an ignitable mixture in air'

I guess this shows why methanol is far easier to ignite than jet A1??

Geoff.

jetjohn

Never mind the Flash point, Why does it have to smell so badly & boy does it linger,[:'(]

John C

p.s.

It is a Hell of a lot safer than Petrol !!!!!

GrayUK

Yep the smell is BAD, that is why I only use paraffin.

Red B.

Even so, I have seen several jet turbine powered model aircraft burst into flames after crashing, but I have yet to see that happen to a methanol/nitro fuelled glow-engine aircraft.

Synthetic

My Feedback: (18)

GrayUK,
Tell me about "paraffin.
Don

digitech

My Feedback: (10)

and i bet 99% of those fires when it hit the ground the engine was running.

stang

My Feedback: (1)

Here's an experience I had with glow fuel. I had finished off a gallon jug of glow fuel except for a couple of ounces. I didn't want to take it home that night so I put the jug in a small baked-earth depression we had near our pit row. I guess a few drops had spilled out on the way there. Another flyer (for whatever reason) decided to burn some balsa from a crashed wing. He threw the burning balsa in the same area as the fuel jug. A few seconds later I noticed a couple of flames on the hard packed earth. Then, with what seemed an agonizing slowness, a finger of flame crept toward the almost empty jug. There was a loud woof sound and that jug was spinning toward our heads spitting flames everywhere. We had flames on two planes, flight boxes and the grass. I had pulled my truck up to the pit area to load up and there were even flames on my tire. It took us a few minutes of panicked action to get everything out but everything was ok. So there's my little story to tell when someone tells me that glow fuel is "safe".

..and yes, we learned our lesson.

GrayUK

Synthetic
Paraffin is used in some stand alone fires and heaters for greenhouses in the UK and Europe.
It was also used in paraffin lamps and camping stoves before gas units were available.
It is basically the same as Kero but does not smell anything like it.
It used to be available at garages from pumps in the UK but now it comes in 1-gallon containers from DIY stores.
It can be more expensive than Kero in the UK but much nicer to use.
I am not sure what it would be called in the states.

See Link below for more info.

[link]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraffin[/link]

Paul

GrayUK

Red B

Crashes in turbines usually involve

1) Much more energy than a prop model so the tank is more likely to split.
2) Much more fuel.
3) A very hot engine, if it is running on impact, all you need is a spray of fuel onto the hot end and you are away.

That is why fires are more common.
However I have seen many Turbine crashes that have not resulted in fires, more than have.

Paul

Synthetic

My Feedback: (18)

Paul,
Thanks for the information. I wonder if any turbine guys use it here in the US? Anybody?

I sure like the sounds of it not smelling like kerosene smells. That's the only part of turbines I don't like. I really hate the kero fumes.

Don

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

I buy the stuff they sell as Kero from the local Speedway gas station. Doesn't smell as bad as the Jet -a1 I got at the airport...and it is much cleaner.LOL

Synthetic

My Feedback: (18)

Terry,
Does it have a special name?
Don

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

Kerosene at the pump....LOL I think thats what I said........

Synthetic

My Feedback: (18)

Doesn't sound very "technical" but hey, it's called what it's called I guess! ehehhehehhe
Thanks,
Don

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

Synthetic,

What we call kerosene in the US is called paraffin in the UK. The gas stations and hardware stores here sell two grades, K1 and K2. They are the same except for sulphur content. K1 has less sulphur and therefore burns cleaner. If it is dyed red it is still the same stuff except the transportation tax has been paid on it.

They all work fine in our turbines. I prefer clear (undyed) K1 because it has less sulphur and no dye to stain my fuel lines and tank.

Joe

Synthetic

My Feedback: (18)

Joe,
Ok, that makes sense. The only time I had heard the term, "Paraffin" was in making candles but now I understand. The "Paraffin" as I know it would be pretty hard to get into a fuel tank...unless you scrape it off! hehehehhe
Thanks,
Don

causeitflies

Just spraying fuel on the hot end probably won't start a fire. It's when the fuel gets sucked into the engine intake (or other malfunction caused by the crash) that the flames come out the back and expose the ingition source.

aussiesteve

See This thread and the links within from another of us beleagured aussies.

[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6009836/anchors_6009836/mpage_1/key_fire%252Cturbine%252Cmodels/anchor/tm.htm#6009836[/link]

And the results of a JPO survey

[link]http://www.georgiajets.org/RMI_html_main_folder/RMI_Home_Page.html[/link]

As was stated before teh flash point of Glow Fuel (Mixed blends) is 12 deg C and Keerosene is >38 degC

The Autoignition Temperature (no flame or sperk required to create a flame - just the heat) of Glow Fuel is 220 degC and of Kerosene is 210 deg C.

P38J

My Feedback: (14)

I got tired of the jet A smell lingering in my car for weeks on end so I started using Klean Strip Odorless low sulfur kerosene, two of the fliers at my field had been using it for year and recommended it to me. I see no change in engine performance at all just a clear difference in the smell. I get it from Home Depot or Lowes.

GrayUK

Yep, that sounds like what we call paraffin [8D]

Synthetic

My Feedback: (18)

Wayne,
How does Klean Strip Odorless low sulfur kerosene compare in price to what you were using?
Thanks,
Don

B58

My Feedback: (43)

If you buy it on close out in the fall you sometimes can get 5 gallons for as low as $5. Normally it is about $5 a gallon. bob