erpgtaiwan

Is there anyone the flying experience of skymaster F-4??

JetsRC

There are lots of people flying the Skymaster F-4 in this forum. What do you want to know?

This is mine:
http://www.jetsrc.com/videos/F-4_Chute_Hi.wmv

Michel

harpoonlightning

Hello all and Michel,

my F4 Jolly Roger,
http://www.dailymotion.com/vicksman/...mov02803_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/vicksman/...mov02800_sport

the F4 Skymaster is a very good plane.

Best regards
Michel J.

erpgtaiwan

Hi Michel:
I know you are so pro for the sm F-4. Would you please watch following video and tell me your opinion.
The pilot is my friend and the accident happened in northIreland this year.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...49068328702607 (The jet's turbine is twin ArtesFalcon)

A bad accident happened again to another pilot when He made the jet "hard turn" in Taipei.
I got one and the turbine is behotec jb180.I will do the maiden flight...So worry...Give me some advice please...

best regards

RogerWang

dbarrym

My Feedback: (47)

I haven't flown a SM F-4 (or any F-4...yet), but to me that looked like a classic "dirty" stall/departure in a hard turn. He got pretty slow a few other times in the vid as well.

An F-4 is 'heavy metal' and needs to be flown as such...not like a sport jet. Low power + slow speed + banked turn = stall + spin.

Just MHO. Gotta fly them scale like, no hard pulls, and from what I've heard/seen, particularly with the Rhino. Sorry to see your friend lose his F-4.

Barry

David Searles

My Feedback: (49)

Roger,

The whole flight looked great until the first time he lowered flaps and gear, then the plane seemed to be get a little twitchy, as if he had an increased elevator throw mixed in to compensate for lowered flaps. The stall in the final turn was a classic stall situation for the F-4. You have to carry power thru the turns because of the increased drag. At that high an angle of bank he was wayyy to slow, off the power and, pulling to hard on the elevator. The pilot handled all of the split s turns and loops well and elevator control seemed well balanced until he dropped the gear and flaps, then things started to get a little shaky.

Ask the pilot if he had increased elevator throw mixed into the lowered flaps and gear configuration, if so, I'd bet that caused him to overcontrol in the final turn.

Hope this helps, sorry to see it go in. It looked to be flying beautifully.

David S.

MaJ. Woody

My Feedback: (28)

I Agree.
Way too slow and an extreme bank angle....the poor F-4 just gave up. It's sad to see such a nice model bite the dust. Sorry for your loss.
Dom

drdoom

My Feedback: (9)

One thing had nothing to do with the crash But the Nose Gear is not retracting all of the way. Looks to be a bit tail heavy and (to ME) after burning off the fuel it may have become more tail heavy. this resulting in the Stall Spin accident. Was this the Jet with the Twin Falcon's?

erpgtaiwan

Hi Barry:
Thanks for your description. But I dont know whats meaning of "MHO"?


Roger

drdoom

My Feedback: (9)

MHO= My Humble Opinion.

ravill

My Feedback: (11)

Well I flew my SM F-4 many, many times. The one bad habit that it had, which ultimately cost the life on my F-4 is with flaps deployed, MY F-4 had to be kept at a positive angle of attack THE. WHOLE. TIME.

The instant the nose went down, with flaps down, I would loose elevator authority and I could not recover it until I put the flaps back down to neutral.

I was able to catch this twice on my up wind, gear pass, and flap deployed pass. I was unable to hit the flap switch fast enough on my base to final approach and lost my F-4 on final. Lost the airframe, some servos and my titan ingested some fod.

This phenomenon has been written about before. Other than this, this F-4 was a very docile and, as your vid shows, a very manueverable jet. I posted vids about my F-4 and can repost if you like!

Raf

Karsten022

We have had the same situation with an F4 this year (it was not a SM F4 - it is from a German manufacture called Krumpp Modellbau) how it is showed on the video.
In the final approach turn with full flaps the F4 got to slow because we turned down the turbine to early.

If you don`t do this mistake the F4 is a good flying plane.

MfG
Karsten

KC36330

very well mannered camera man there too, the belching was so pleasing [:'(]

jetpilot

My Feedback: (48)

Hear how windy it was? Too slow and too much bank for a windy day.

Scott

erpgtaiwan

Hi David:
Thatright the pilot do the job that you guess. And the jet flying with the gyro 401.Normally we test the mix between elevator and flap..turnning the trim of the elevator till the jet keep horizontal when the gear and flap are lowdown.The pilot used Futaba 14mz with "condition mode"(0=Normal 1=take off 2=landing).So I think that is the mixing situation.
Thanks for everyone provide such good experience!

Best Regards

RogerWang

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

Like David said, when the flaps and gear were deployed the jet seemd unstable. If i was spotting for him i would have suggested a flaps up landing and figure out what was going on with the flaps on the ground.I bet the jet would do just fine without flaps on landing.
V..

check6ii

My Feedback: (12)

The jet appeared a bit twitchy to me for much of the flight. I suspect the cg was a smidge aft and that, coupled with the jet being "dirty" and slow it simply mushed and stalled. There were a couple of times that the jet was too slow period and very close to a stall. With gear and flaps deployed, power must be applied to compensate with the drag induced. Its a shame-it looked like a nice model.

David Searles

My Feedback: (49)

Roger,

Notice at about 4 minutes into the flight after the first gear and flaps down, the pilot got the plane stable at a nice AOA and speed that would have been perfect for final. He could have landed it with a little power for a perfect touchdown. On his final turn if you listen closely you can hear that he was already off the throttle at that point, A BIG NONO, for the F-4 at that angle of bank. If you maintain power and flatten out the final turn the Phantom will continue to descend under complete controll till you cross the threshold, and then you can either cut power or maintain power and just lift the nose a bit to bleed off the speed.

When you test fly your friends F-4 just remember to make your downwind leg far enough away from you to allow a nice gentle flat base leg and final turn and carry power all the way to final. NEVER come off the power with an F-4 until the wings are level or very close to it. At a high angle of bank, the drag increases and the airspeed decreases so quickly, you can very easily stall the wing. Almost impossible to recover at that stage.

GOOD LUCK on your friends maiden. The plane is very predictable if you understand its limits.

David S

whaledriver

My Feedback: (154)

I land my BVM F-4 at half throttle, until I'm on the ground, then to idle. With the positive AOA, it is a very steady approach, with just a slight flair to touchdown.

I have not noticed the blanking of the elevator when I lower the nose configured. The Yellow F-4 did this, in fact, we just landed them without flaps because of the blanking of the stab.

JetsRC

I don't seem to be able to get pass the half of the video and if I download the video I get a corrupted file.[:@]

Anyway from what I have read it seems speed was the problem. The F-4 is VERY draggy and will lose speed fast when throttle is at idle. Always fly the F-4 with power and speed. The F-4 is not a floater. When doing the landing aproach always keep power until you are aligned with the runway. Also I always try to do the final turn with a slight nose down atitude to keep speed.
Regarding Ravill issue I have experienced this once but it was on final at low speed. Ther F-4 will have trouble raising the nose at low speeds. But at a normal landing patern you should be fine. Always keep a slight nose up atitude on final.
I have also done some pretty hard turns and pushed the jet very hard and it never gave me a problem. Again if you have the correct speed the F-4 is steady as a rock. I would try to get a full elevator turn at full thottle though...
Above all do not be afraid of the F-4, the jet fly's great and you will have a lot of fun if you take the necesary steps to know how your jet flys and reacts to diferent situations, and this is a general rule for any jet in my opinion.

If you have any other questions feel free to send me an email if you want.

Michel