27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
04-14-2008, 02:21 AM
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27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
Hi Guys. Please help me out on this one. I am a little confused.
I have a DL50cc that i wanted to put into a Hangar 9 27% Extra 260, that is until i saw they are releasing the Carden 89" Yak 54.
The only gripe i have seen about the Extra 260 is that it is a little on the small side for a 50cc engine. I prefer the looks of the Extra compared to the Yak but i am sure the fly equally aswell. Price on the Yak will probably work out to be +- double that of the Extra when it gets here to South Africa.
Reading the Yak''s instruction Manual off the Hangar 9 website it does seem that it comes a little more prefrabricated than the Extra.
I really wanted an Aero-Works 50cc Extra 260, but the shipping costs to South Africa are $300, thats almost the same price as the kit itself.
Maybe i should bite the bullet and bring in the Aero-Works kit, i really like their Extra 260.
Any advice appreciated.
Thanks
I have a DL50cc that i wanted to put into a Hangar 9 27% Extra 260, that is until i saw they are releasing the Carden 89" Yak 54.
The only gripe i have seen about the Extra 260 is that it is a little on the small side for a 50cc engine. I prefer the looks of the Extra compared to the Yak but i am sure the fly equally aswell. Price on the Yak will probably work out to be +- double that of the Extra when it gets here to South Africa.
Reading the Yak''s instruction Manual off the Hangar 9 website it does seem that it comes a little more prefrabricated than the Extra.
I really wanted an Aero-Works 50cc Extra 260, but the shipping costs to South Africa are $300, thats almost the same price as the kit itself.
Maybe i should bite the bullet and bring in the Aero-Works kit, i really like their Extra 260.
Any advice appreciated.
Thanks
04-14-2008, 08:03 AM
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RE: 27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
I peorsonally wouldn''t waste a 50 on that Hanger 9 260... it''s small and light. A 50 is way over powered for no reason.
The other 2 planes you are talking about will fly circles around the small 260.
If you are partial to Extras the Aeroworks and Extreme Flight are leading the way... both are awesome flyers in any type of flying you want to do. THat being said the new Yak coming out is suppose to be very nice as well. It''s a tough choice!
The other 2 planes you are talking about will fly circles around the small 260.
If you are partial to Extras the Aeroworks and Extreme Flight are leading the way... both are awesome flyers in any type of flying you want to do. THat being said the new Yak coming out is suppose to be very nice as well. It''s a tough choice!
04-14-2008, 08:12 AM
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RE: 27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
Yeah the H9 Extra 260 is small. Not sure why H9 didn''t make that 85" wing span. It''s caught in the middle of a heavy gas and a light glow. I''d never get anything under 85" for a gas engine. Doesn''t make sense (to me anyway, not trying to anger current H9 Extra 260 owners).
04-14-2008, 08:47 AM
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RE: 27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
Yep, postage to SA is ridiculous! I have the 260 mounted on a Moki 210 
Its more than enough power, but that does not stop people sticking DA''s on the 260 all the time. Have a look at the thread on the plane in the 3d section. It flies very well - amazing roll rate and very precise with total lack of coupling! I am about to build a CA Models 28% Edge 540 because I wanted a true 50 CC plane and a kit to build as well. Give Peter Hinz at Cerberus RC down here in Cape town a buzz - he imports CA Models ARF''s as well - [email protected]. The 89" Yak is very nice. I''d get that over wasting money on shipping or look at a CA models kit instead...
Its more than enough power, but that does not stop people sticking DA''s on the 260 all the time. Have a look at the thread on the plane in the 3d section. It flies very well - amazing roll rate and very precise with total lack of coupling! I am about to build a CA Models 28% Edge 540 because I wanted a true 50 CC plane and a kit to build as well. Give Peter Hinz at Cerberus RC down here in Cape town a buzz - he imports CA Models ARF''s as well - [email protected]. The 89" Yak is very nice. I''d get that over wasting money on shipping or look at a CA models kit instead...
04-14-2008, 12:41 PM
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RE: 27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
The H9 small extra is too small for the DL-50. it''s more like a 40cc plane. I tried it with a 50 and it was not good at all.
The quality of this ARF is lacking all around - no question about it. It is not well made or engineered. Hardware is weak. Cowl painting is nice.
The Carden 89'' is way out righ now. I would wait until people build it and fly it before jumping on it. Good name but no real track record in ARF for the combination of H9 and Carden. it also does not look very scale from the pictures.
If you need something now, try getting the EF Yak 88''. It is the top of what is being done these days and flies incredibly well. I am putting together my second one and amazed again how well done this ARF is.
For the DL-50, you have a choice of options. I am using a tuned pipe on the second one. The first one had a regular muffler, ended up at 16.6lbs. and was a blast to fly.
All hardware is quality stuff and this one comes with every upgrade or accessory you could think of...
04-15-2008, 08:05 AM
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RE: 27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
The quality of this ARF is lacking all around - no question about it. It is not well made or engineered. Hardware is weak. Cowl painting is nice.
Mmmmm, which harware? Control stuff is 4-40 and as good as most similar stuff on ARF''s around this size isnt it? H9 sell the stuff separately. Never failed on me. Hinges are H9 hinge points - won''t fail. My carbon u/c lasted quite well until a dead stick landing damaged them. What else is there? Engineering looks about the same as many other ARF''s. Again, mine never broke from in flight forces. Rudder is weak at the counterbalance but is easily remedied. Its a cheap ARF and offers good value and flies well enough for most people. IMHO of course.
Mmmmm, which harware? Control stuff is 4-40 and as good as most similar stuff on ARF''s around this size isnt it? H9 sell the stuff separately. Never failed on me. Hinges are H9 hinge points - won''t fail. My carbon u/c lasted quite well until a dead stick landing damaged them. What else is there? Engineering looks about the same as many other ARF''s. Again, mine never broke from in flight forces. Rudder is weak at the counterbalance but is easily remedied. Its a cheap ARF and offers good value and flies well enough for most people. IMHO of course.
04-15-2008, 09:49 AM
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RE: 27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
Well, sorry mate.
After building several EF, PAU and QQ kits, I am probably used to other standards. The H9 included hardware is throwaway for me and I always replace it with Dubro HD stuff or better... This includes their gas tank, all bolts, fittings, control rods, etc. The good stuff they sell, like titanium turnbuckles or CF tubes, is not included in the kit.
I did not get a chance to verify the durability of the gear, as I got rid of the plane as soon as I realized I did not like it''s flight abilities, but if you read the very long thread, quite a few people had to find a replacement.
It''s probably a good starting plane for someone. But these days, when 85" Yaks from china, that are semi-well done and available anywhere between $300 and $400, this small H9 ARF, at $379, is way too expensive.
04-15-2008, 10:02 AM
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RE: 27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
I saw the new Carden Yak at Toledo and spoke with them (Carden) about it. It''s well made, very clean, and built to Carden''s standards. It won''t be marketed any other way. If I was looking for a high quality Yak (or any other Yak for that matter) the Carden would be the way to go. Cost more? You bet. Fly right? I haven''t seen a Carden that flys badly yet and from what I saw that isn''t going to start now.
As for comparing it to a 27% anything, how can you compare a mansion to a slum rental? 50cc engines in 27% planes has been a waste of engines, imo, so the Carden wins there too.
As for comparing it to a 27% anything, how can you compare a mansion to a slum rental? 50cc engines in 27% planes has been a waste of engines, imo, so the Carden wins there too.
04-15-2008, 07:48 PM
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RE: 27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
I,ve got a EF Yak, Aeroworks Extra and had until very recently a QQ Yak, plus I owned a H9 Extra in the past.
So I,m in a position to compare directly all of the aircraft mentioned above. The EF and QQ products are all by themselves in the quaility department imho.
The AW is just slightly below the other two. Not in the quality area, but in the extreme engineering gone into making it as light as possible. The AW planes are built with a certain
degree of robustness [ is that a word] that will allow some of us to have a more durable longer lasting airframe with a 1/2-3/4 lb weight penalty .
As for the hardware I believe that the H9 hardware is as good a quality as any other out there.
Its different from the EF, QQ hardware and is similar to the AW hardware pack and is very good in its own right, its definately as good as any Dubro hardware available.
Well maybe a few clevis linkages that they stuffed in to the kit need replacing with 4/40 ball links but thats it.
QQ planes are the only ones supplied with the titanium turnbukles straight out of the box, all others you have to buy them after the fact.
As for the difference between the two kits mentioned by the original poster Pat Roy summed it all up in his post.
The H9 Extra is a very good value at $250 less than the next cheapest plane I,ve commented on, plus you don,t have to pay shipping which adds another $50-$90, just keep the
engine as light as possible or just use it as a short term first gasser if funds are tight to start with.
I too was once in the same position when looking at my first gasser and don,t for a second regret going with the H9 Extra/DA 50 combo to start with.
Therefore if funds allow going bigger go for it as they really do fly better, otherwise be confident that your DL/H9 Extra will be a good start.
Man what a rant, I,m spent
thx Dave
p.s. The H9 Extra is still flying today by its 3rd owner with a rebuild the winter before last.
04-15-2008, 11:36 PM
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RE: 27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
What a coincidence, I have also built and owned three of the four you mention (all except the AW).
I disagree with you on three points:
First, I believe the EF and QQ Yaks are not at the same level. The EF has the edge in a number of departments, scale looks being the biggest one of them. The engineering, in my opinion, is better and lighter. Finally, the flying characteristics are more to my liking - for both 3D and IMAC.
Second, the EF Yak 88'' does come with the turnbuckles included. I''ve just completed my second one and both had them in the box. I doubt Chris made a special effort for me. The H9 came with cheap chinese metal rods I would hesitate to use on a .60. The EF Yak also comes with the best landing gear I have seen on any ARF to date. The QQ original gear cracked immediately with no apparent reason, and to their credit, QQ sent a metal replacement (rather heavy).
Finally, the quality level in both assembly and covering on the H9 extra, was much lower. If I add to this the cost of the goodies provided with the EF or the QQ (turnbuckles, CF tubes, pull-pull, phenolic horns, one piece hatch and canopy unit, great tail wheel assembly, quality gas tank, HD ball links, high quality nuts, bolts and bonded washers, etc.), the price difference is in reality much smaller.
It might be a fine starter plane for a 40cc, but at that price point, it is not a good value compared to slightly larger planes that offer more in every department - SD, Lanier and others come to mind...
ORIGINAL: DLEVETT
I,ve got a EF Yak, Aeroworks Extra and had until very recently a QQ Yak, plus I owned a H9 Extra in the past.
So I,m in a position to compare directly all of the aircraft mentioned above. The EF and QQ products are all by themselves in the quaility department imho.
The AW is just slightly below the other two. Not in the quality area, but in the extreme engineering gone into making it as light as possible. The AW planes are built with a certain
degree of robustness [ is that a word] that will allow some of us to have a more durable longer lasting airframe with a 1/2-3/4 lb weight penalty .
As for the hardware I believe that the H9 hardware is as good a quality as any other out there.
Its different from the EF, QQ hardware and is similar to the AW hardware pack and is very good in its own right, its definately as good as any Dubro hardware available.
Well maybe a few clevis linkages that they stuffed in to the kit need replacing with 4/40 ball links but thats it.
QQ planes are the only ones supplied with the titanium turnbukles straight out of the box, all others you have to buy them after the fact.
As for the difference between the two kits mentioned by the original poster Pat Roy summed it all up in his post.
The H9 Extra is a very good value at $250 less than the next cheapest plane I,ve commented on, plus you don,t have to pay shipping which adds another $50-$90, just keep the
engine as light as possible or just use it as a short term first gasser if funds are tight to start with.
I too was once in the same position when looking at my first gasser and don,t for a second regret going with the H9 Extra/DA 50 combo to start with.
Therefore if funds allow going bigger go for it as they really do fly better, otherwise be confident that your DL/H9 Extra will be a good start.
Man what a rant, I,m spent
thx Dave
p.s. The H9 Extra is still flying today by its 3rd owner with a rebuild the winter before last.
I,ve got a EF Yak, Aeroworks Extra and had until very recently a QQ Yak, plus I owned a H9 Extra in the past.
So I,m in a position to compare directly all of the aircraft mentioned above. The EF and QQ products are all by themselves in the quaility department imho.
The AW is just slightly below the other two. Not in the quality area, but in the extreme engineering gone into making it as light as possible. The AW planes are built with a certain
degree of robustness [ is that a word] that will allow some of us to have a more durable longer lasting airframe with a 1/2-3/4 lb weight penalty .
As for the hardware I believe that the H9 hardware is as good a quality as any other out there.
Its different from the EF, QQ hardware and is similar to the AW hardware pack and is very good in its own right, its definately as good as any Dubro hardware available.
Well maybe a few clevis linkages that they stuffed in to the kit need replacing with 4/40 ball links but thats it.
QQ planes are the only ones supplied with the titanium turnbukles straight out of the box, all others you have to buy them after the fact.
As for the difference between the two kits mentioned by the original poster Pat Roy summed it all up in his post.
The H9 Extra is a very good value at $250 less than the next cheapest plane I,ve commented on, plus you don,t have to pay shipping which adds another $50-$90, just keep the
engine as light as possible or just use it as a short term first gasser if funds are tight to start with.
I too was once in the same position when looking at my first gasser and don,t for a second regret going with the H9 Extra/DA 50 combo to start with.
Therefore if funds allow going bigger go for it as they really do fly better, otherwise be confident that your DL/H9 Extra will be a good start.
Man what a rant, I,m spent
thx Dave
p.s. The H9 Extra is still flying today by its 3rd owner with a rebuild the winter before last.
04-16-2008, 07:26 AM
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RE: 27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
To each his own. Remember guys, and especially Yarom, the original poster, is like me from Africa, he on the east coast and me nearer the Southern tip, so your lovely price/value/performance arguments don''t hold the same water for us. H9 stuff comes in here at a realy good price due to bulk imports. JR is also the biggest radio brand for the same reasons - its good value. The EF isnt availabe AFAIK and QQ stuff is twice the price here and postage is prohibitive if we want to bring it or the other stuff in ourselves. I did however find a 84" Chinese Yak recently here for about $400, so maybe things will change eventually. In general I don''t think anyone on the planet has it as good as the consumers in the good ol USA....
04-16-2008, 07:46 AM
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RE: 27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
Spoiler, Well put and good points on the economics of enjoying this hobby outside of North America.
Yarom, Good points but, I,m still of the opinion that the H9 stuff is of very good quality and just happen to have a H9/Carden Yak on order becuase its a great value for the money spent.
thx Dave
Yarom, Good points but, I,m still of the opinion that the H9 stuff is of very good quality and just happen to have a H9/Carden Yak on order becuase its a great value for the money spent.
thx Dave
04-16-2008, 09:34 AM
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RE: 27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
I was not aware of this at all.
Might be economical for you to travel to the US every time you need to purchase parts for a new project. Not to mention having access to the proper brands and choices.
I know many Brits that do their Xmas shopping on the US East Coast and are still way ahead, after airfare.
ORIGINAL: Spoiler
To each his own. Remember guys, and especially Yarom, the original poster, is like me from Africa, he on the east coast and me nearer the Southern tip, so your lovely price/value/performance arguments don''''t hold the same water for us. H9 stuff comes in here at a realy good price due to bulk imports. JR is also the biggest radio brand for the same reasons - its good value. The EF isnt availabe AFAIK and QQ stuff is twice the price here and postage is prohibitive if we want to bring it or the other stuff in ourselves. I did however find a 84" Chinese Yak recently here for about $400, so maybe things will change eventually. In general I don''''t think anyone on the planet has it as good as the consumers in the good ol USA....
To each his own. Remember guys, and especially Yarom, the original poster, is like me from Africa, he on the east coast and me nearer the Southern tip, so your lovely price/value/performance arguments don''''t hold the same water for us. H9 stuff comes in here at a realy good price due to bulk imports. JR is also the biggest radio brand for the same reasons - its good value. The EF isnt availabe AFAIK and QQ stuff is twice the price here and postage is prohibitive if we want to bring it or the other stuff in ourselves. I did however find a 84" Chinese Yak recently here for about $400, so maybe things will change eventually. In general I don''''t think anyone on the planet has it as good as the consumers in the good ol USA....
04-16-2008, 09:36 AM
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RE: 27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
Eventually someone will bring one of these Cardens to the field (that is late in the summer, when these actually ship), and we will compare the flying qualities to the EF Yaks...
To me it still sounds like a marketing gimmick...
ORIGINAL: DLEVETT
Spoiler, Well put and good points on the economics of enjoying this hobby outside of North America.
Yarom, Good points but, I,m still of the opinion that the H9 stuff is of very good quality and just happen to have a H9/Carden Yak on order becuase its a great value for the money spent.
thx Dave
Spoiler, Well put and good points on the economics of enjoying this hobby outside of North America.
Yarom, Good points but, I,m still of the opinion that the H9 stuff is of very good quality and just happen to have a H9/Carden Yak on order becuase its a great value for the money spent.
thx Dave
04-16-2008, 12:47 PM
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RE: 27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
Thats amazing about guys from the UK coming over to do Christmas shopping in the US.
Yeah, I,m with you on waiting to see how the two different airframes will fly when compared back to back.
The best part of all of this competition is that, it gives us a great deal of variety to choose from
when picking a new plane.
I might also add that we are indeed lucky to be here in North America.
thx
Dave
Yeah, I,m with you on waiting to see how the two different airframes will fly when compared back to back.
The best part of all of this competition is that, it gives us a great deal of variety to choose from
when picking a new plane.
I might also add that we are indeed lucky to be here in North America.
thx
Dave
04-16-2008, 01:57 PM
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RE: 27% Extra or 89" Carden Yak 54
Read it and weep guys - these are some local prices on QQ products: 86" QQ Yak, R9070, 102" R13960,00. Divide by 8 to get the $ price we are paying. In contrast an H9 27% is around R3000 - R3500. It isnt double more like triple[X(]
