MJD

My Feedback: (1)

I just got one of these for my buddy for his birthday, and today we were fondling all the bits. I was very impressed with the quality of this ARF, and the covering job. Seems like a terrific value. Nice fiberglass cowl too. Comments I have read on RCU say it is heavy.. but I don't see that, the fuselage seems very light, the wings are "normal" weight for wings that size to me. The tail surfaces seem a hair heavy, but nothing to write home about. This is all subjective I realize but I've handled a few models in my time. We're going to put an Enya .80 4C in it, based on other's comments 4C .72-.82 power is a fun combo with this. I took issue with the ".40-.50" 2 cycle and ".52" four cycle recommendations, seems to me if you want a gentle scale flier then the .52 is perfect, but nearly all the comments I've read indicated it seemed to be crying for more power.

I'll check back once we get it in the air. And I/we do plan to roll the throttle on gently on takeoff..

MJD

NorfolkSouthern

I got the Lanier Citabria while it was still in stock. It's too bad they discontinued it. I'm planning on using an OS 46 AX. It will be interesting to see how it handles, compared to other planes I've flown.

NorfolkSouthern

deckerv

My Feedback: (21)

You'll love that plane! I have a very old Fox 50 in mine, and going to swap that motor out for a new SuperTigre 51 soon. My Fox 50 is not running well at all.

Anyway, it's one of my favorite planes to fly. Can putt around nicely, and can do nice aerobatics when you open the trottle. Going to do some work on the stars and stripes though.. pinstriping.

Have not had any problems on takeoff myself.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

How does the trim job hold up? Do you think I need to spend some time sealing the edges? With the bottom exhaust I would think the top side stays fairly intact. We'll mount the motor at about 75 degrees from horizontal and route the exhaust into the tunnel.

I also noticed that while everything looks chickity-boo (including pre-pinned hinges! I gather they had some let go before that became standard) there is one thing I don't like - the ailerons are significantly smaller in LE thickness than the TE of the wing. I understood that was not a good thing...?

MJD

mrbigg

My Feedback: (21)

Pre-pinned hinges? Are they flat plastic, like a Klett type? On the aileron thickness, years ago in Don Lowe's column in RCM, he mentioned that having the leading edge of the aileron thicker than the trailing edge of the wing, reduces the chance of flutter. I've had my eye on this one for a while. Too many other projects going on right now.

NorfolkSouthern

Are you referring to the Lanier Citabria, or Phoenix Decathlon, deckerv? I read so much about how hard these planes are to handle, yet a couple locals around here say they are no harder to fly than a Cub. How would it compare to a typical low-wing?

NorfolkSouthern

deckerv

My Feedback: (21)

Hello all

Norfolk.. I have the Pheonix Decathlon. I don't find it any more problematic on takeoffs or landings than my other taildraggers. I've been flying taildraggers for 26 or so years now, so my experience with this model probably reflect that. Nothing was as bad to takeoff than an old scratch built pitts that I had years back from 'scratch-a-plane' plans . I don't have many planes that I can compare it to. I would say it flys like a clipped wing cub. A much more docile version of my Extra 300 kit from Goldberg, but NOT a precise aerobatic ship. There is a lot of roll coupling in knife edge, but I think that's to be expected with a high wing plane. It's a very relaxing plane for me to fly, and is a bundle of joy. Kinda like an Eaglet 50 on steroids that can fly inverted well too

mrbigg.... I think if I remember correctly (I'm @ work so can't look right now) but the hinges are pinned style hinges..sorta like DuBro hinges, with a metal pin going through the TE of the wing and LE of the aileron to pin them into the structure as well. Very nice.

MJD... Hard to say what time will do to the trim. Bare in mind mine has only about 20 flights on it mainly because of the tired faulty engine I have in there. Swapping that out soon though Anyway, the stars look like they're cut out of contact paper, so I doubt they'll last a long time. I bought a star template from Top Flite and will cut some stars out of oracover. The stripes are oracover (or whatever they use). I'd take the time to go over all the seams with an iron just to be safe. The covering shrinks nicely... not like chinakote stuff. The top of the plane does stay pretty clean though. I think I used thinned epoxy and 'painted' it in that exhaust channel just to be safe.
Here's the color scheme I'm going after with pinstriping and adding a few touches

[link=http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/American-Champion-8KCAB-180/1187469&photo_nr=1&prev_id=&next_id=1122050]G-EZPZ Decathlon[/link]

I don't care for the aluminum wing struts though... the totally round shape just doesn't look right... plus it's rolled metal, so there is a seem on them and bend easily. Think I'll build some out of K&S Streamlined tubing, dowel, and threaded rod this summer. My only other pet peeve is that the top of the canopy sticks up about 1/8" above the wing. Other than that, a pretty great plane, especially for $119!!!!!

happypappy

My Feedback: (10)

I had one of these and powered it with a .46AX and it was a screamer! Very fast. I think the secret to this plane is to keep it light. You will hear many tell you to put a larger engine on it then add even more weight to bring the CG back in range. Am telling you from experience that the plane needs nothing more than a .46AX or maybe a hot .50 sized engine. Not every plane has to have "unlimited vertical" to perform!

deckerv

My Feedback: (21)

Well said happypappy. Unlimited belongs to the Extra's, Ultimates, etc... This one's just a sweet relaxing flyer with a fun side

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Be very careful. I have seen that attitude cause the demise of several Decathlons. This is NOT a sweet, easy flier, and if you try to fly it like one, it will bite you!.

deckerv

My Feedback: (21)

Will keep that in mind Minn

mrbigg

My Feedback: (21)

I had one my first summer of flying. Third plane. It bit me when I increased the rudder for better knife edge and then overcorrected one time on take off. Should have never messed with the throws. Live and learn.......

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

It's a great airplane, but the two biggest mistakes I have seen people make with it are:

Breaking ground too soon on takeoff (While there is a lot of torque and low airspeed) - and

Floating it in for a landing.

Don't get me wrong, it will float in very nicely, but be careful of going too slow on the turn to final as the inside wing can stall - Also beware of coming in slow, then zipping up the throttle for a touch-and-go, and breaking ground too soon.

NorfolkSouthern

Dial in low rates, advance the throttle slowly on takeoff, use shallow landing approaches, keep the airspeed up and the wings level. All this would mean flying it conservative and scale, definitely not 3D. And if I'm careful to do all this, then my Citabria should last a few seasons, right?

NorfolkSouthern

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Advancing the throttle slowly on takeoff is ok, but regardless of how you advance the throttle, the more important thing is to not rotate until it has good speed. Just keep it on the ground for an extra second or two - You may be familiar with the term "Horse it off the ground" - That's exactly what you DON'T want to do.

Shallow approaches are not necessary, just don't let it get too slow in the final turn.

Here's the deal - Look at the Decathlon (Or Citabria). It has the same basic looks as a Cub or Cessna, but the big difference is that it has a very short tail moment. That is, the tail is close to the wing. This allows it to be much more maneuverable, but it also greatly reduces the tail's effectiveness at low speed.

So it will float in very nicely. BUT - If you're floating in very nicely, and then zip up the throttle, you don't have enough tail back there to prevent the torque from spinning you into the ground.

NorfolkSouthern

I see. So, take off like I do with my Rapture 40: Advance throttle smoothly, let tail lift, reach airspeed, then rotate. I am wondering about whether or not a Citabria will "windmill" like a Cub. If that's the case, then I don't want a cross wind. On landing, how about using 1/4 throttle and comming in under power, like on a bipe? How do you handle a Decathlon in a dead stick?

NorfolkSouthern

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Yes


Due to the short tail moment, it's not as susceptible to windmilling, but given a strong enough wind it will


Not necessary since it doesn't have the drag that a Bipe has, Just land it like anything else. But don't let it get TOO slow. It's just that it has a deceiving look - It LOOKS like it should fly slow, but it has a fully-symmetrical wing, so it doesn't provide as much lift as many planes that look like it.


Just keep the nose down and the speed up and land it like anything else.

NorfolkSouthern

OK, thanks. One last question: A few folks buy these as a second plane. However, it's not on Ken's list due to the short commings we have discussed so far. Would this be a good third plane after someone has learned how to fly a low-wing? Would it be a better first scale plane than a warbird like the P-40 Warhawk? Is the Decathlon/Citabria more for intermediate pilots, or are they more advanced like the Giles 202 or Cap 232?

NorfolkSouthern

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

It is really a more advanced plane than a second plane. This is one of the reasons many people have had problems with them. They LOOK like a nice second plane, but they are aerobatic dynamos.

Look at it this way... In the full-scale world, there are no private pilots who own a Decathlon for traveling from point "A" to point "B". Anyone who owns one uses it for Air Shows - Or just because they like doing aerobatics.

Note: A Decathlon is a Citabria with a bigger engine. Do you know where they got the name Citabria?

It's "Airbatic" spelled backward. - Now put a bigger engine on it, and it's a Decathlon.

deckerv

My Feedback: (21)

Here's a pic of it.. work in progress. Going to do some pinstripping next with stripes on the bottom of the wing.