affas

What is the recomended maximum wingloading for a good 3D plane ? Any seugestions?

and does anyone know the conversion from oz/sq. ft. --> g/dm2 ?


Best regards
Alf Hansen
Norway

3D Joy

I have been told that for a scale 3D machine, 24 oz sq ft should be a good aim. Sure lighter is better.

I don't know for fun fly aircrafts, though.

Rumple

[QUOTE]Originally posted by affas
[does anyone know the conversion from oz/sq. ft. --> g/dm2 ?

I calculate that 1 oz/ft2 = 3.05 g/dm2.

This means that 24 oz/ft2 = 73 g/dm2.

-Kurt

drandles

My Feedback: (8)

I was kind of surprised when I put the weight, wing area, and wing loading into a spreadsheet. Here is what I found

Dave Patrick 330L 78" 1220 sq in 16 lbs 30.2 oz/ sq ft
Aeroworks 33% Extra 104" 1880 sq in 26 lbs 31.9 oz/sq ft
Hangar 9 Cap232 97" 1750 sq in 26 lbs 34.2 oz/sq ft


The Dave Patrick (lowest wing loading of the three) with a Brison 3.2 had the most vertical (shot up like a bottle rocket) and the least 3D ability. The chart doesn't show it but it was too heavy. It needed more wing area like the new Extreme Flight Yak 87" 1450 sq in 15lbs. 23.8 oz/sq ft.

The Aeroworks does unbelievable 3D manuevers. The H9 Cap outshined the DP330. The DP should have had a glow engine on it and brought the weight down to 14 lbs. The Cap would do even better with my DA-100 in it (it has a Mac Minarelli 85cc)- would be 1/2 lb lighter and more horse power.

Wing loading is a factor. Power to weight is important too. Power to wing area seems to be another factor.

It would be instructive to compare thrust to wing area and thrust to weight.

The Extreme Flight Yak does fit into your formula of 24 oz/sq ft or less. My Aeroworks Extra comes in at almost 32 oz/sq ft and does just unbelievable 3D!!!



Dale

Flyfalcons

There is no formula. The Reynolds numbers will change as the wings get bigger. Therefore a 40% Extra with 34oz wing loading will 3D much better than the DP Extra at 30.

3D Joy

Is it possible to have a "correct" Reynolds number with a small airplane for 3D, say 1/4 scale? I know I can have a light small airplane but if it do not have the correct Reynolds then I am wasting my time.

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

I flew the pre-production Extreme Flight Yak. It was under 15 lbs RTF when I flew it. At 24 oz/sqft its an incredible plane.
The Edge and the Extra will be the same way.

Click the link under my sig for info.

drandles

My Feedback: (8)

Wayne,

Does it fly like a 33% plane. I'm debating on next year getting one of these Yak's or putting the money towards my Hangar 9 Cap - buying a ZDZ80 for it.

Ryan,

Do you have a web site or anything of the sort that would tell me in layman's terms about Reynolds numbers?



Dale

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

Dale,

I sent you a PM.

rcuser006

My Feedback: (12)

Wayne,

I apologize if this has been asked and answered before, but what is your connection to Extreme Flight RC?

I have noticed that your signature block has a link to their website and you have posted a lot lately extolling the virtues of these new airframes.

Are you commercially involved?

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

Meaning, do I make any money or profit from any sales that Extreme Flight RC gets?
No.

rcuser006

My Feedback: (12)

Or do you get subsidized and/or free gear from them?

Any connection needs to be explained in public so that your posts telling us how good these new airframes are can be considered for what it is worth when taking into consideration your connection.

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

Scott,

As I explained to you in my PM..

I am sponsored by Extreme Flight RC.

Have I gotten anything for free from this company or anything at a reduced rate? No.

If anyone is interested.... read this post. I made this post only hours after flying these planes. Well before I became sponsored.
That is how I felt about these planes from just flying them.
That hasnt changed.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...&referrerid=60



If somehow my opinion is now viewed as biased.... Im not sure there is anything I can do about that.


Anyway,
what was this thread about?
p

rcuser006

My Feedback: (12)

Thanks for making the connection public knowledge.


So no money and nothing subsidized and/or free.........well then what is the definition of a sponsored pilot?

You just go around plugging their products and advertising their website for nothing in return? Surely there must be something in it for you?


I am not saying that these planes are not going to be good. In fact everything I have seen and read about them, points to the fact that they will be extremely good. I too like the Yak and one day may purchase one.


All I was asking for, is for you to acknowledge publicly that there is a connection between yourself and this company, so that people reading your posts can take that into consideration.

Aahh, wingloading wasn't it? By the sounds of the weights on those Extreme Flight birds, they should have very good wingloading. We shall have to wait for the production versions though as sometimes during the manufacturing process weight can creep in that wasn't in the prototypes.

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

As of right now my connection to Extreme is strictly getting the word out. I have not received anything at all from them. Will that change? Probably.
Would I still be getting the word out if I wasnt "connected?" Absolutely.

The Yak I flew was not a Proto-type but a pre-production plane. This is what the public will be getting and it was under 15 lbs RTF.
But, in case my opinion is biased..... do the math. With 1427 Sqin of wing you could be at 17 pounds and still have a lighter wing loading than anything else thats out there now thats in the 25 to 30% class.

flynbrian

My Feedback: (1)

How are those "extreme flight" planes built? I cant see how they can get the plane to bee so light without coming apart. I mean some of these planes that are not all routed out and lightened have some structural problems.

Those #'s are hard to believe. I had a 30% cap with 1400 sqin wing that weighed around 23lbs.

rcuser006

My Feedback: (12)

It will certainly be interesting to see how they hold up under everyday use. The only way to make it lighter is to reduce the structure somewhere and that could potentially reduce the strength too, if not done properly.

Plus I don't like the bottom of the canopy how it is an open cross brace design. Obviously done to reduce weight, but it just doesn't look right. How do you go mounting an instrument panel and pilot as required for IMAC?

Flyfalcons

Same as you do with the DP Extra and Edge.

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

Cheech

My Feedback: (19)

I am reading this thread with much personal interest. I too have been looking for "quarter scale nirvana". It probably does not exist, but searching for it is half the fun.

I've had the DP Extra , powered by a BME 44. It weighed 15 1/2 lbs. It flew fantastic; smooth and precise. But it did not 3D too great. I sold it several weeks ago.

I've had the SIG 300XS . Really really good flyer on a MOKI 1.8. It weighed in around 13.5 lbs. It had alot smaller surfaces than the Patrick Extra. It flew the sequence beautifully, but it couldn't 3D its' way out of paper bag . I crashed a week and a half ago pushing it too hard.

I am now assembling the Dave Patrick Edge . It will be MOKI powered and I'm targeting 14lbs flying weight. It has the super light construction that flynbrian asks about. The plane has GIANT almost 1/3 scale looking control surfaces on it. And it has 1200 squares of wing area. If I can get it off the bench at 14lbs wing loading will be 26oz /square foot.

BTW, wgeffon, I LIKE what I am reading about the YAK

-Cheech

wgeffon

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Hey Mark..

You gonna be at the Internet fly-in?
Chris will be there with the Extreme fleet.
I am sure he'd let you try the Yak out.

I saw one of those DP Edges fly a few weeks ago and it looked like it did really well.

Cheech

My Feedback: (19)

Yes, I am planning on going to the internet fly in. I'll bring two of my sons. I was really really hoping that a secure place to leave planes overnight would be provided. I haven't figured that one out yet - I guess they'll go back in the van.

I made my plans for the internet fly in BEFORE I sold my Patrick Extra then subsequentially CRASHED my other 1/4 scale extra. So I am feeling a little "plane-less" at the moment. I should have the Patrick done by then for sure.

EXTREME FLIGHT

Regarding the structural integrity of my aircraft- anyone who has seen me fly these aircraft has witnessed very aggressive flying, including power on blenders. They are strong where they need to be. Are these aircraft for everyone? No. These aircraft are built for competition level flying, if it's not needed, its not there. It will be very easy to modify the canopy area for a more scale appearance if you desire. Wayne Geffon is a sponsored Extreme Flight RC pilot. No secret there. I have chosen a few pilots around the country to sponsor in order to get the word out. Not because they can get on an rc forum and hype my planes, but because they are excellent pilots that can fully demonstrate the capabilities of my aircraft.

bob_nj

My Feedback: (62)

I'm not at the home computer right now and can't get the formula. For the larger planes, cubic wing loading is used and works well as an indicator for 3D and such. It used to be on the old GSAL site, but isn't there now. I did a web search and came up with some old sites. Try a search here also until I can get back with the calculator_bob

bob_nj

My Feedback: (62)

Don't know if this file will come through, but here goes.