Waco

My Feedback: (265)

I wonder why you don't see a 80cc single by DL, or 3mm? they made a 50cc and now a double but nothing inbetween. As a sport flyer I can not see paying for a DA, ZDZ, or 3W.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Probably because someone got smart when they developed the crank for an 80cc single and have a lock on the design and manufacturing. That's the problem one conversion manufacturer has already run up against. I say good for the developers of the 80's. They get to keep their designs and the profits in their own house for awhile.

If you can't afford one the answer is simply not to buy one and remain in a size class you can afford rather than rail how you may be getting beaten out of some entitlement or are being ripped off by those that manufacturer engines in the 80cc class.

There are currently 100cc twins on the market for less than you can buy a quality 80cc single for. You should consider going there and deal with the quality issues that may or may not reside within them.

Waco

My Feedback: (265)

Whoa, talk about a elitist atitude, as sport flier I don't need the performance of a top of the line engine, nor do I want to pay the price they want for those engines, that does not mean I don't have the money I just don't think the cost justifies the end, a double is too much engine for the plane I have and I don't think it would fit in the cowl anyway. I am not on here to cry about and expect everyone to meet my every whim I was just wondering why you don't see any.

RC Extreme power

My Feedback: (24)

Getting a crank for a 80cc is no problem, There are factories in china that make cranks for most any size engine you want to build.

If you have a good 50cc engine and want to do a 100cc the cost to produce is a lot lower because you already have half the parts, All you need for a 100 is a crank and a crank case for the 50cc cylinders and pistons that you already have.

If you want to do a 80cc you have to start from point zero.

Milton

arobatx

There are 'good' 60's that will run like a 'lower priced, lower performance 80', and cost you less than a 'good' 80 would, perhaps that is a route you'd like to go? There are others that share your interest in engine size, and many are getting out of their 60cc engines because of them being older or heavier technology, and moving up to the larger cc singles around the 80cc class. Some of these used 60cc class engines are the most bulletproof available, and you could find yourself a good deal with a little homework. Properly piped, you might even find one of those 60's competing very closely in performance to a standard canned 80 Like it or not, we are at the mercy of the market...and if you're not in a place to follow suit, my advice would be to do some homework and snap up one of the deals people are offering on their good 60, hoping to quickly get up to that new fancy 80.

pe reivers

Good point "tired old man"

A lot of design work needs to be spent in a new engine class. The copycats produce engines without knowing what they do, so they copy the good with the bad, and will leave the customer to solve all problems that may arise from this attitude.
Since about 95% of the model flyers are end users and by no way specialists in the field, only 5% of those who buy early copies will be happy with their engines after they made the needed mods. (quick and dirty estimate, don't shoot me for a few percent either way in this lobsided distribution)
In the end, the customer has to pay the bill, one way or another. If I do have to pay a bill, I rather do so on quality items. Life's too short to spend on mistakes.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

The issue here is more one of desire versus financial ability than anything else. You can have anything if your willing to pay for it. That's not elitist, but reality. Because someone can afford a Rolls Royce does not mean that everyone else should be able to have an equal product at a lower price.

You don't see any by other manufactures for numerous reasons, the least of which is that the 80's have yet to establish a market share worth bothering with. Rest assured that if the market expands to fit the size they will be there. The eastern engine manufacturers probably haven't had enough time to tear down a 3w or DA 80-85 and copy it yet....Good or bad is another story. The fact that someone is wondering why a cheaper 80cc isn't available strongly indicates they have a desire for one but can't afford the current market price. There is never a need for a "sport" flyer to go larger or change engine sizes, only a desire. Same applies to myself.

Yes you can get a crank made to fit a displacement and dimension but can you obtain a good one at an affordable price, or a price that permits a lower selling price? That's been a consistent problem with the knock off engines so far. Only a couple have been successful in this area.

RC Extreme power

My Feedback: (24)

This is a good post and I knew it would come up someday.
As to only 5% of people being happy with new engines that come out I think you a little off on your count, Maybe with the engines from China web site, Ebay and a couple sold by dealers in the US you are probably right but so far I have not had one complaint and not one customer had to make any modification or repair to make there engines perform.
I had a call today from a customer in NC who bought one of the 102cc and he talked an hr about the performance of the engine. The only modification made to the engine was I sent him plug adapters and new ignition so he could use CM6 plugs so he did not have to cut his cowl for the plug caps.

RC Extreme power

My Feedback: (24)

Sorry double post

pe reivers

Milton,
I talk about copycats. Not all that build 80cc engines.
If I would build an engine, I would look at the market first, and integrate the gained knowledge into my design. That does not make me a copycat. It is sound engineering practice. Since form follows function, my design might look a lot like that of my competitor, yet be not the same. There are too many items left open for choices, which in the end determine customer satisfaction with the product.
Though I believe I am capable, I have no desire to devellop an own engine line, but like to represent a dependable product that I can believe in and support. That is totally different from my experience with "make money quick" manufacturers. The copycats I mentioned in my previous post.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

There has been some extremely high end engines made on a small scale for some use specific applications. Pretty exotic stuff. All have worked very well but to attempt to produce them for a public market would be an act of folly. One would never, ever, recover the engineering and design expenses, let alone the tooling set up and manufacturing costs, unless several thousand were sold at a very high price before someone else obtained one and reverse engineered their own version. You might break even if you restricted sales to the country of origin for five years and forced each buyer to sign a non-disclosure. That isn't ever going happen...

The thought of actually turning a profit from sales of a new engine design is as far fetched as walking from here to the moon.

rc bugman

My Feedback: (30)

Waco,

The other solution is to purchase a used 3w-75 or ZDZ or .. . . . . I have seen, purchased and sold some real quality engines for a reasonable price on RCU.

Just a thought since you do not want to pay the Euro inflated price due to the current weak dollar.

Elson

Whistling Death

Waco, I hear you can sell one of your organs and get lots of money for them. How bad do you really want that hunk of aluminum?

Waco

My Feedback: (265)

Ha! there is no engine worth what I have in my body, that is just the point, I am not looking for high performance at a low price, I am looking for a modestly price engine that will do the job, I could care less about 3D and all that goes with it, and the power it takes to fly it. I tried the used engine route and ended up with a engine that took a lot of work to get running and by that time I could have bought a new engine for what I had invested in it. There are good modestly priced engines out there that do quite well, 2 that come to mind are the DL and 3mm. in the 50cc range. I realize there probably is not enough demand for this size engine and that is why there isn't any. I just thought there might be one out there that I did not know about.

RC Extreme power

My Feedback: (24)

Good things are on the horizon

Milton

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

3mm is soon to turn loose a 114cc twin that should work out extremely well in price, performance, reliability, and weight. RCGF currently markets a 100cc twin that performs very well. Both the RCGF and the 3mm are lighter than a new version DA 100. DZY is making a good 100cc twin as well. DL is doing similar from all appearances.

Yes, all of the above sell for a price higher than we might think a "budget" 80 would go for but you end up with more power and versatility and don't have to pipe the engine to get what you want. The other options of obtaining a used engine from a known seller have already been noted. Buying a used engine on E-Bay is the supreme act of faith.

If a used engine has not hit the ground, been overheated for a long period of time, or run thin on oil, usually the most that would need to be done to it would be to rebuild or replace the carb and replace the ignition. That fails to factor bearing failure caused by numerous prop strikes. The cost of an RC Exl igniton is very low, carb kits are cheap, and used carbs in good condition are plentiful enough to be easy on the wallet. Most of the mechanical items noted can be seen via detailed photographs if the seller was willing to take the engine apart. A 360 degree view of the cylinder head generally lets you know if it's been crashed. Broken fins equal crashed engine. Saying they dropped the engine, breaking a fin or two doesn't hold water, even if it's true.

mrbigg

My Feedback: (21)

Used engines are the way to go. Prices are down because of the the cheapos and the new releases of name brands like the DA 100 and DA 170. Plenty to chose from.

Mitsu1

My Feedback: (13)

Hobbycity announced, or slipped .. or whatever you want to call it ... that FTL .. you know the makers of the FTL 45cc and FTL 52cc that HC sells .. was "working hard to get their 85cc perfected for a spring release". They posted that in a thread back in about February. I haven't seen the engine anywhere, .. so I don't know if its still in the pipeline or whether they dropped it.