Boo2

Hi,

It's been eating me and I just cannot remember the "proper" name for canard foreplanes on a jet ?

Thanks,

Boo

invertmast

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anytime i've seen a flying surface on the front, its always been called a Canard... or are you referring to something like what the eurosport has? as i've always called those canards as well.

seanreit

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Maybe he is asking about Strakes like on the B-1 Bomber??

CraigG

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For a minute there I thought you said "foreplay". Anyway, this is what one aviation reference says about canards;

In aeronautics, canard (French for duck) is an airframe configuration of fixed-wing aircraft in which the tailplane is ahead of the main lifting surfaces, rather than behind them as in conventional aircraft, or when there is an additional small set of wings in front of the main lifting surface.

That's the only term I know for them unless you want to call them "ducks".

Craig

Robrow

On the Typhoon they are referred to as foreplanes but I find I naturally refer to them as canards. Not sure what the difference is (if any) when they are not all flying?

Rob.

Big feet

Easier to build.

DanSavage

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Very few jets have actual canards, ie: lifting surface ala a Rutan canard.

Most of the time, they're foreplanes. Which is to say they control the nose in the same fashion as the tail-plane controls the tail.

In the case of the XB-70, it's a pitch control device that is only deployed with flaps. As you know, a delta-winged aircraft cannot have flaps, per se, because it's the same thing as down elevator. North American added the foreplanes so they could add flaps. When the flaps come down, they produce a nose-down moment. To counter this, the foreplane adds lift to the nose.

seanreit

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Dan, I agree with your consensus, however, are you indicating that the airplane in the pictures is a "delta wing". I'm not sure I agree with that since it has clear horizontal stabs. I'm not saying that when that airplane deploys flaps on the wings, that the nose doesn't pitch down, it very well might, but I'm not sure that using elevators might not counter act that nose down problem.

A long time ago, I came up with the idea that canards keep the nose from stalling at a higher angle of attack, I don't know if that is right or wrong, but it works in my head. IE when I am holding full up elevator in a turn in a eurofighter, the nose does not stall out of the turn, it just keeps flying because there is an aerodynamic surface there creating lift.

Maybe I'm muddying the water, but maybe not........

CraigG

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Guess it depends on whose definition you use. The source I looked at says (in part) a canard is a "...flight control surface mounted at the front of an aircraft..." Doesn't have to be a lifting surface and may or may not be fixed. Seems like canard and foreplane are used interchangeably and some sources even refer to them as "canard foreplanes".

BTW, it looks like "foreplane" may have originally been a nautical term, such as the foreplane or bowplane on a submarine.

Personally, I still like the French term for them.......ducks.

Craig

tralalala

His example was concerning the NA XB-70.. aka Valkyrie... The pictures he posted are of a Sukhoi 37

seanreit

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Whoops, if it hasn't been obvious in the past, it should be blatantly obvious by now, that I do not know my full scale aircraft............Sorry.

Airforce7

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I think one of the most interesting canard configuration designs was used on the TU-144. It's retractable and functions similar to a traditional elevator with a hinging surface. Interesting to read the jet couldn't fly (take-off/land) without it.

Red B.

As far as I know the first supersonic fighter jet to employ canards was the Swedish SAAB AJ-37 Viggen which first flew in 1967.
The canards were not primarily there to increase maneuvering capability, but was a result of quite stringent STOL requirements by the Swedish Air Force.
Interestingly for Burt Rutan fans, it was the Viggen which inspered him to develop his very successful canard aircrafts. His first canard design was named [link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_VariViggen]VariViggen[/link].
Later on when fly-by-wire and inherently unstable designs were introduced (e.g., JAS 39 Gripen) canards became foreplanes, which are not only lift augmenting devices, but are also used for control and maneuvering.

The STOL-performance of the Viggen was quite impressive (by fighter jet standards). Have a look at this YouTube clip: [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpxz_-ELi6U]Viggen STOL[/link], where a full stop landing followed by a turn around and take-off is accomplished within 53 seconds, of which 8 seconds are used to spool up the engine after the full stop.

Robrow

Heee....heeee....just to add to the info.....the Typhoon also has flaperons and uses both flaps and foreplanes together!!

That Viggen can turnaround nearly as quick as the Typhoon

Rob.

CraigG

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You're absolutely right Red B. It just so happens that I built one of those later canard designs, a Vari Eze. Along with the follow on Long Eze it became one of the most popular homebuilts of all time.

The canards made the Vari Eze very maneuverable in pitch and with the small side stick controller it had the closest feel to a fighter type plane than any other light aircraft I have flown.

This is my son and I in my Vari Eze in about 1980.

Craig

PARCS46

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Hey Guy's: I need a little help trying to locate this Jet enthusiasts. Has anyone ever heard of Jim Martin? He flew his Valkyrie in the 18th Superman Jet Rally, at Cape Girardeau Regional Airport FL. in 2006. SKS video may still have a copy of that event! Jim Martin's Valkyrie is a large bird at 22lbs. w/four 4' fans, putting out 6 lbs. of thrusts each. the battery pack weight at 13 lbs., guess he wasn't using LiPo's then!

I would appreciate any info received, then I may be able to make contact with Jim Martin. He's from Illinois, near Chicago, and he mentioned on the video that he was going to kit his bird, wouldn't that be great! Thanks Much: Bill Watson - PARCS46 "Always Keep 'em' Flying"

invertmast

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You would probably have better luck starting a new post, rather than digging back up a 3 year old thread.