darrolair

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25936782/

TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

Well, maybe there is no ethanol in the gas in my area, but as a small engine mechanic by trade, I don't see problems like the article suggests. Gas goes bad faster than it used to, but that's all the problems I see.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Living in California where they've been using ethanol for years, I haven't seen the damage noted in the article. As a rule my engines get to sit for months at a time and the residual lubrication remaining inside the engines from the last run is still intact. Some older rubber components in carbs needed to be replaced a few years ago but since then the only components that have required replacement have been those permitted to dry out. Those have been few because simply wetting them with fuel again has brought them back to life.

Ethanol does indeed attract more moisture, which is one of the reasons you can't use it in full scale aviation. That's good reason to make sure your gas cans are completely closed when you finish with them. Aside from that, the use of methanol has more of an effect on the vapor pressure of gas and might cause vapor lock problems or bubbles in the fuel line in warmer weather. About the only options you have available to you (in the U.S.) in avoiding ethanol is purchasing racing fuels but even some of them contain ethanol.

Our government hard at work, don't ya just love it. The environmentalists can always find some new "fix" for something that ain't broke, while failing to look at the possible negative effects of their solution. They won't be happy until we're all running around barefoot, wearing fig leaves, digging roots and grubs out of the forest floor with dull sticks. As much as they appear to hate technology, a good many of them work in high paid, high tech occupations. Go figure.

darrolair

We use B&S 4 strokes on our irrigations systems in the summer months and have had to change the gas lines from the tank to the carby every year. There is a place to purchase gas without alcohol, however it shouldn't be a forced issue.
Darrolair

qldviking

here in australia I have had problems with both my cars and my 2 outboad motors, running on E10 (10% ethanol) and its cost me a fortune getting all running again, had to replace all rubber and nylon/plastic parts in the fuel systems of all of them.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

We had the same issues here initially but over the past 15 years or so most of those components have been upgraded or repaired on the older stuff while newer products had the correct materials used during the initial assembly. There's still some of the old composition components floating around but not nearly as many as we are led to believe.

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

Yep, it was an '80's thing. Gasohol showed up, and Chrysler carburetors started with problems shrinking the accelerator pump cup. It was a year or two before they started using the appropriate material. Rochester Quadrajets (and some other carburetors) suffered from floats that would gain weight (absorbing the alcohol, or catalyzed by it, or something.) The heavy float wouldn't... well... float. And the needle valve wouldn't close, the fuel level would be high, and the mixture would go rich (or just flood the engine.) Kohler (small engine) carburetor floats (looked like a pingpong ball) would swell up and stick in the float chamber. etc, etc, etc.

The materials had to be updated before the customer was ready to run again. A lot of people had their cars or mowers "repaired" with the same alcohol sensitive parts, and endured repeat failures.

I thought we were all done talking about that years ago. Guess not.

Cheers,
Dave Olson

qldviking

My 250hp yamaha outboard was 6 months old when I had the problems, and my nissan 4x4 was 18months old. mechanics for both companies said I should be fine, but my 4x4 lasted 3 weeks and 2 trips out with my boat. I used that boat near every weekend and an average trip used about 120-150 gal fuel (25 foot boat). I can understand my old Audi and old evinrude 15hp, but it was all of them, andf lots others here had problems

Sport_Pilot

I suspect there are some manufactures that use old not ethanol proof componets, but I bet the better brands are now using all ethanol proof parts now.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

I don't think most people are getting to the root of what is really happening here! First, it is clear that some parts of the country are having real fuel related problems where most of the country is getting along just fine. The SE part of the country seems to be getting the most press lately. Ethanol blended fuels are almost universal now and most of us get along with them just fine ...... zero problems for the most part. Yes, there are older engines in all sorts of equipment and vehicles that may have problems but modern engines and fuel systems tolerate ethanol very well.

OK, what is the problem if it isn't ethanol? Well maybe, just maybe it is one or more of the many other chemicals that are compounded into what we call gasoline. Many people are misinformed and think that ethanol is just added to the same old gas they have been using for years... so when problems happen, well it just has to be the ethanol that caused the problem. Well gasoline is quite the cocktail of exotic chemicals and solvents many of which have far greater solvency than ethanol. Maybe it is one of these chemicals in the reformulated gas that is causing the problem. Maybe it is these in combination with the ethanol that causes problems. There are probably hundreds of local formulations of gasoline around the country and maybe some of these are more prone to cause fuel system problems than others. Whatever you guys are getting in the SE part of the country seems to be causing problems. Food for thought.

One more possible cause. Ethanol has to be denatured (so we can't drink it) as soon as it is produced. They do this by adding a small percentage of another chemical. This might be methanol, gasoline or one of several other chemicals. This could be the problem but if it were, I would believe the problem would be more widely spread.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Good points. There is little outside oversight of our energy companies. Most of that "oversight" is performed in house under a "gentleman's agreement" between the corporations and our various governments. California is among the worst for that kind of arrangement. Who really knows what's going into the fuel blends?

Rodney

I have had to repair (replace components) in three Walbro carbs since the alcohol content has been increased in the gasoline in Florida. After the last bout of plugged orfices, I started using Colman camp stove fuel and have not had any problems since and power output is as good as with gasoline. Bad part, Colman fuel costs more than gasoline. Several of my friends are now complaining of the lawn mower engines also acting up with fouled carbs since the addition of 10% alcohol.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

OSHA and other bodies require the petro companies to publish a basic list of components in motor fuels (MSDS) but the exact ratios could vary widely. I've suggested in the past soaking a carb diaphram in either Toluene or Xylene just to see what the results might be. These are two common fuel ingredients in the US .... but have been for decades so nothing really new there.

Back in the 70s, a very good modeler friend of mine worked for Phillips Petroleum. He made me aware of what was being put into gas at that time and I was shocked. I'm sure there are far more exotic things being blended these days and far more local blends.

captinjohn

Well here is something you can try. Have a convenient set-up to plug in a line going to your camp fuel mix, and start engine and let it run the camp fuel through the caburator. Pretty simple if done right. Kinda like good insurance, and that may keep your carb from going bad...and some carbs are real expensive! Capt,n

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

I've had zero problems running fuels that contain ethanol. But guess what, my state which is one of the larger ethanol producing states in the country still gives us a choice of ethanol blended or non-ethanol containing fuels! No, I'm no great ethanol supporter either ..... just waiting for the shoe to drop on that industry and they will be in line for bailouts too.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I'm still of the opinion that you eat corn, or drink corn. It doesn't need to be in my gas tank. Keep it away from the horses because they get to uppity when they get it.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

No disagreement here! I do enjoy corn converted into a good steak or pork chop too! My ethanol drink usually is made from barley though.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

The comment about OSHA oversight was interesting. In California they call before they come out for an inspection. It's nearly always by appointment unless someone was killed on the job. Weights and Measures visits are far and few between with only a random sampling. That list of ingredients is usually the raw components in rough percentages. In the beginning that good old MTBE wasn't even on the list, then it was listed as a poisoneous by product of distillation, then it became the new wonder oxygenator. They had to dispose of the stuff somehow.

Yep, our governments keep a real close eye on the oil companies The third eye perhaps.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Disposal is a key word here. My friend in the petro industry said that many gasoline ingredients were indeed chemicals that were in excess in the industry and they could be easily disposed of in gasoline. If it burns and you have a lot of it ... and you're a refiner .... put it in the gas! Especially in winter months, the lighter bodied components can be mixed in gas where they would be unstable in warmer months. Not trying to sugar coat anything here.

I firmly believe these various solvents are responsible for some engine problems in parts of the country. The effects of ethanol are known, have been compensated for and would be the same regardless of location. Other fuel components are unknown as are their detrimental effects on our engines. Yet, ethanol continues to be the scape goat for all things bad with motor fuels. When someone dares to suggest that something other than ethanol might be the root of the problem, few people choose to discuss it or even acknowledge it, much less research it. I've even been moderated in the past for just bringing up this subject. Imagine that ........

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Perhaps that's because some people figure if it can make it into a news paper or 10:00 news story most everyone will believe it? Gullibility is atthe highest level it's ever been.

qldviking

all that crap they put in our fuels these is scary, and regulated? what a joke, guess who pays a fortune into campain and other funds each year? and dfo you think any govt is going to cook the goose thart lays golden eggs? Not a hope. I dont know too much asbout what crap they put in gas, but our diesel these days is near all kerosine, and stinks of it. [:'(] I bought an old truck a couple months ago that hadnt been run in many years, the tanks were near full, and wow you could tell it was real diesel, and it had that nice oily feel and smell. I got nearly 1000L (approx 250gal) out of it and you can bet my little truck runs a lot better on it. after bleeding the fuel system and changing the filter the old truck fired right up too and ran like a swiss clock
its funny how much variation there is in our gas too, going from one tank to the next. I only run regular unleaded. Some times the motor in my audi loves it, starts eay, runs well, and gets good milage, over times its slow starting, runs like a hairy goat and gets lower milage. Consistancy there isnt [&:]

gkamysz

My Feedback: (19)

THe crap they "put" in fuels is there when crude is pumped out of the ground. It's just what they choose to remove. All of the truly nasty stuff is removed.

y2k6vette

What about AVGAS? It's my understanding that federal law prohibits ethanol in avgas. Would it be free of ethanol, but still contain some/all of the other nasty stuff that's been mentioned here? So far, the gas in Utah has no added ethanol, other than 4 stations in the state which carry E85. Your comments are appreciated.

Steve
Foggy Minded Mountain Man

gkamysz

My Feedback: (19)

Gasoline IS a mix of a bunch of solvents. All of it nasty. Formulations vary by the source of the crude, location where it will be sold, time of year, national, state and local laws, application, and many other specifics.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Av gas is indeed free of ethanol, but contains tremendous amounts of lead additives which our little two strokes neither need or like. The stuff loads up plugs pretty good.