KillerTGK

My Feedback: (2)

Hey everybody, I just purchased a new touch-up spray paint gun and a Paasche VL airbrush to begin painting my fiberglassed Cessna. I've read a lot about different paints and I'm not sure whether to go with a urathane based paint like PPG or latex, or others. I've heard latex gives a pretty non-glossy warbird-like finish which is not what Iam looking for on this plane. However, it seems latex and water-based paints are easy to use and safer?

I would just like a first hand suggestion on specifically what paint would give my plane a great finish, maybe the easiest to mix, since Iam still a beginner. Iappreciate any replies! Lets make this an open discussion about paint and spray painted finishes.

grimmy55

First off is it a waxed fibreglass fuselage ,,what I do with fibreglass is to throughly clean with solvent then dry ,give it a coat of etching primer that makes all paints stick better throughly sand it again then undercoat with suitable undercoat depending on your top coat
then light sand down and apply top coat (finishing coat ),,the etching primer is the key to it all, I bet you a dollar you.ll never get the paint of and it wont flake away ever,,

Rudolph Hart

If you don't wish to solvent wash the glass parts just make like you are washing the dishes with the parts you have.On glass i would'nt hesitate to use a 2 pack polyurethane automotive finish.

Ed Smith

As grimmy55 indicates surface preparation and priming is very important, There is no need to repeat that. In my opinion it is 90% of the battle. After priming, both airplanes in the pictures were painted with household exterior latex paint. For the base colour I used a cheapy Badger airbrush. For fine detail I used a more expensive two stage "Iwata" airbrush. The latex paint had an additive called "Floetrol" added. This additive slows the drying process and causes the paint to level out as it dries. Although with an airbrush the orange peel effect is usually not a problem. The proportions used were 10 parts latex, 2 parts Floetrol, 2 parts water. Others have used windshield washer fluid for thinning and levelling, Ihave not.

Latex paint is not glow fuel proof. None of the water based polyurethane clearcoats I tried were glow fuel proof. The Cosmic Wind has a topcoat of automotive clear gloss. The P40 has the same clear gloss but with a flatting agent added. Automotive 2 part clearcoat is glow fuel proof.

I hope this helps,

Good Luck,

Ed S

Avaiojet

Automotive paints are dangerous to use.

I've used them my whole life, professionally, doing art and graphics on just about everything, including model airolanes. Thing is, I've always paid special attention to the method in which I used these products.

Read the labels!

Always where a respirator and vent thearea so as to have overspray pulled out of and removed fromthe space.

My suggestion would be to make friends at your local body shop. If they have interest, they will help you.

That is, you could bring your model to them to spray the primer and base color.

You could do the detailing or other trim colors, then bring it back to them for the final clear coat.

This would minimize your exposure to these paints.

They do have water base automotive paint products which are available in colors. However, they require the "hazardous" clear coats.

I've always thought about painting models for money, especially the jets, because there's money to be made.

But without the proper equipment and environment, it's not worth it.

I'm moving to FL shortly. You can bet I will develop a relationship with a friendly body shop or two.

Charles

KillerTGK

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks for the very helpful replies guys! I think I'm going to stop by an automotive shop today and see what kind of suggestions they have. Ed Smith, both of your planes look fantastic especially the Cosmic Wind. It looks pretty shiny and I was wondering exactly which latex paint you used? I heard Baer was a good brand and easy to find. Would using an automotive clear coat (would this make it shinier than latex clear coat) stick well with the latex under it?

Also a question about primer: I've already put on one coat of primer over my fiberglass which was sanded down after using Bondo body filler all over, and I'm curious as to whether the next step should be another coat of filler primer (right now I'm using an automotive one from AutoZone) then to sand it ALL? off with a very fine wet sanding, or should I just sand off part of it with fine sandpaper to leave some for the base color coat to stick to? That was a long sentence, but I appreciate the replies again! Hah

Ed Smith

I used Behr latex paint from Home Depot. The latex clear would not be glow fuel proof.

The final coat of primer should be the same colour all over.

Ed S

KillerTGK

My Feedback: (2)

So that means I could use urathane based clear coat over the latex and make it fuel proof? Sorry If I'm not understanding correctly. And also which primer did you use before you latex base coat?

Keith

Ed Smith

Hi Keith,

grimmy55 pretty much described the preparation process.

I used an automotive epoxy primer as the base for the finishing paint. Mainly because Ialready had it . Any primer meant for use with latex should be suitable. Due to environmental concerns oil based polyurethane, in fact oil based paint of any sort is difficult to get.

Oil based Polyurethane clear used to be fuel proof. However after a while the clear will start to "Yellow" . It will not stay crystal clear like automotive clearcoat.

"Klasscoat" epoxy products makes an epoxy clear. You might want to check out their website. Ihave not used their products.

The picture shows the P40 primed. As you can see all different colored fillers and patches have been covered by the final prime coat.

Ed S

Rudolph Hart

When you have the parts in primer/primer filler and are ready to sand first apply a mist coat of contrasting colour over the top (guide coat) this will show all the scratch marks and pinholes as you sand it back

eroc144

My Feedback: (1)

Ed - What method did you use on your P-40 to prevent overspray on the individual colors?  EG, did you use tape, hand-spray, etc.  If tape, how did you keep from getting a tape line in the paint?  

EG

digital_trucker

Nelson paint is wonderful stuff. It's a water-based polyurethane that when used with the matching crosslinker is fuel-proof up to 50% nitro. It's simply the nicest stuff I've ever used. You can get it from Neslon Hobby online - nice folks to do business with too!

Ed Smith

The first coat of paint was the light sand colour.

I did not want a sharp line for the dark camouflage edges, Iwanted a very slight feathered edge. I did that freehand with a two stage airbrush. Idid practice onan old wing first. The insignia was masked with very thin vinyl masking tape. The lettering was computer cut masks.

Ed S

stevenmax50

My Feedback: (1)

Hey Keith, where are you?   It has been some time since you last posted?  I would like to see some pics of your work.  I have read this thread with great interest due to having all the same questions you had.  I will be starting to cover my plane in a week or two.  Then I will paint it.  First time doing anything cept Monokote for me so we will see...
In the meantime...lets see how yours is coming out.  Thanks

Steve 

rlemaster

I've been painting a plane that I just glassed and primed with Autozone primer (not the etching primer mentioned above). Since that primer was only available in gray, I found some primer made by the same company (I think it is Rustoleum brand, can't remember for certain at the moment) that is white. I applied this and sanded down to a very smooth surface. My base paint cote is white, so I was afraid the white paint would not cover gray primer very well. I wet-sanded as the last step in preparing the surface.

Part of my objective in painting this plane was to try out latex paints for the first time. I have used Klass-Kote, and other similar paints in the past. I decided to try out both the Behr Exterior Ultra (or premium, not where I can see it right now) and the new Behr Interior Ultra Plus. The exterior paint is my base color (white) and I'm using the interior for blue and red detailing.

The Exterior white is satin and the interior is flat.

The exterior paint went on really well, good coverage. When it dried it had a fairly hard finish (though not nearly as much so as Klass-Kote). I was able to sand it as needed and it seemed to have a good bond with the primed surface. Then I went on to paint my detail colors with the interior paint. I used both the blue tape and regular vanilla masking tape. For both tapes, the exterior paint held up so-so. I had a couple of places where the paint pulled up. I wasn't thrilled with the surface bond.

The interior paint that I used is horrible for this purpose. I'm not sure whether it was because I used flat or because it was interior but even after waiting almost a week I can just barely scrap my fingernail across it and it just comes right up. I won't be using that particular paint again.

Assuming that my problem was in using flat interior rather than satin exterior (also I'm not impressed with the "Ultra Plus"), this may work out but I do have some concerns and I'm not completely convinced that I want to go this way rather than sticking with epoxy paints (ie: Klass-Kote). The latex paint is so much cheaper and less troublesome to use. Here are my observations and concerns.. perhaps someone has some input on this:

Latex (exterior satin):
* Seems to hold ok, but not great. Perhaps doing a better job of scuffing before painting would have helped
* Looks like it goes on kinda thick. Meaning any surface imperfections seem to get covered up. This would seem to be a good thing, but when building scale, I'm concerned that panel lines, rivets, etc. may get covered up / filled by the paint when it settles. The plane I'm testing on does not have scale detail so I'm not sure on this one.
* Very easy to work with and clean up
* The satin finish sands ok up to a point.
* For the color paints (interior flats) I had to put on 4 to 5 cotes just to get good coverage (some light pencil lines were still visible).
* Can't really mix your own colors (this is not a big deal since you can have it mixed for you, but in smallest of pint size).

Epoxy paints (ie: Klass-Kote):
* Paint goes on really nice, the surface is rock hard when it dries
* The painted surface almost looks like it has no paint on it (it doesn't fill up panel lines, etc. that much). Very thin coats seem to cover well.
* Pain to work with. Need to have well ventilated place, respirator, etc. Also, to clean up airbrushes I use up a lot of thinner.
* The two part epoxy system is a bit of a pain as well. Once you mix, you pretty much have to use it up within a few hours (though someone has said you can put it in the fridge, I'll pass on that.
* Klass-Kote is very expensive (relatively speaking)
* Mixing is easy since the color of the paint when wet is nearly identical to the dried color (not the case for latex)
* Sands really well.

So at this point the jury is still out. I do really like not having to use respirators and such and the latex overspray/dust is easy to clean up. If anyone has had similar experiences as I have and found a way to overcome them, please let me know.

Thanks,
Russ

stevenmax50

My Feedback: (1)

Have you looked at the paints from Nelson Hobbies?  
<font color="#00265e">http://www.nelsonhobby.com/paint.html</font>
I have had alot of people here in RCU say alot of positive thgings about it.  Thins with water...no respirator.  alot of other positives.  I have heard no negatives.  I guess its time for me to try it for myself.

rlemaster

The biggest negative for me is the price. For what they are selling for, I can get Klass-Kote paints for. Granted, those are toxic, but they also have a good offering of the primary paint colors to mix with. Warbird paints seem to be limited in some respects (or at-least I can't find where you can buy pure Red, Blue, and Yellow for mixing). I'm not sure if this problem exists for Warbird's paints, but so far the latex based paints I've worked are hard to mix colors with because they change color when they dry (drastically). This isn't a problem for the epoxy paints in that the dry color is pretty much spot on with the wet color.

Later,
Russ