New Saito FG-40 ?
05-25-2012, 10:51 AM
#1
07-20-2016, 08:43 PM
#3
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Huningue, Alsace, France
Posts: 35
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Hi there gents,
I am the unhappy owner of a SAITO FG-40. For the past 4 years... I shelved it two years and dusted it off over the winter to fit it on Hangar 9 Spitfire "30cc". After finding the ignition lipo 2S have a weld broken (intermittent 8.4V to 4.2V) and find out that 95E dose not work very well... I fed it 98 gasoline and it work fine on ground but in flight it sounds like it misfires or the cooling is not sufficient and it stops in flight. I open-up cowl exit vent and reopened the front + baffled the cylinder. Well it still misfires and some time it stops...
Now i have fitted a new stock carburetor the same things are happening... I am down to point the ignition system (original from Saito). I do know that these engines have a tendency to play hard to get but dam this one is give me a run for my money...
I can not find a reference for ignition box for Saito FG-40. (they are probably ashamed or out of stock...)
How do you see this problem on FG-40. Have you encountered such inquiry? Would you give me some tips on how to trouble shoot.
The carburetor can not suck gas when trying to prime/chock when the fuel lines are empty on the first start of the day...
Regards
Marv
I am the unhappy owner of a SAITO FG-40. For the past 4 years... I shelved it two years and dusted it off over the winter to fit it on Hangar 9 Spitfire "30cc". After finding the ignition lipo 2S have a weld broken (intermittent 8.4V to 4.2V) and find out that 95E dose not work very well... I fed it 98 gasoline and it work fine on ground but in flight it sounds like it misfires or the cooling is not sufficient and it stops in flight. I open-up cowl exit vent and reopened the front + baffled the cylinder. Well it still misfires and some time it stops...
Now i have fitted a new stock carburetor the same things are happening... I am down to point the ignition system (original from Saito). I do know that these engines have a tendency to play hard to get but dam this one is give me a run for my money...
I can not find a reference for ignition box for Saito FG-40. (they are probably ashamed or out of stock...)
How do you see this problem on FG-40. Have you encountered such inquiry? Would you give me some tips on how to trouble shoot.
The carburetor can not suck gas when trying to prime/chock when the fuel lines are empty on the first start of the day...
Regards
Marv
09-09-2017, 11:28 PM
#4
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dubai, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posts: 500
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Hey Guys,
It seems that there is not a lot of information on these engines, looks like a lot of people 'scared' to run them, or they have known problems that prevent people from using them.
I have recently bought one, and mounted it to my test stand for running in. I got it set up, and used a 20:1 ratio of Redline oil for running in purposes, as specified by the manual. As with my other Saito Engines (I have a pair of FG60 Radials) I put some oil in the crankcase prior to starting.
I managed (eventually) to get it running on the needle settings suggested in the manual, but I had a tough time getting it to start by lip starting. I used the choke rod but even that wouldnt draw much fuel, so I put my finger over the trumpet and it sucked fuel up. Because it is mounted with the cylinder vertical, whatever fuel got sucked into the trumpet, just fell out when I took my finger away. It was a battle to get fuel into the cylinder but eventually it fired up. I kept it running at a high idle, and transitioned it a few times as suggested, without going over 4K rpm. It was running rich, and I never got it running in high enough revs to set the high end. I have put maybe 300ml through it (just over half of a 500ml tank) and it was running ok. I wanted to heat cycle it by shutting down, allowing it to cool, and then restarting. ALWAYS an absolute HASSLE to get it running by flipping it. After a while I gave up and got the starter out. Even then, it is a bear to get running.
I have some concerns about the timing on this thing. It 'appears' that the timing is set to almost TDC or even a tiny bit before. This goes against the grain of most gassers that need to be at around 28 Deg BTDC. If I look at the location of the sensor in relation to the magnet, and just by guestimation of the compression stroke, it seems to be firing way out. While I was trying to get it started, and was turning the prop to get it in a position to flip it, it kicked back on me and whipped my ring finger...it was trying to start backwards! I am going to get my timing/degree wheel out and see exactly where it is firing, but I suspect it is all wrong. I dont think that manufacturers would let this pass because there is not enough (in my cursory observation) adjustment on the sensor to get it anywhere near 28Deg.... Is the ignition module allowing for the spark at such a timing state by retarding it?
Will report back later this week on the exact point of timing, but has anyone got any constructive commentary on the timing action on these engines?
Regards
Andy
It seems that there is not a lot of information on these engines, looks like a lot of people 'scared' to run them, or they have known problems that prevent people from using them.
I have recently bought one, and mounted it to my test stand for running in. I got it set up, and used a 20:1 ratio of Redline oil for running in purposes, as specified by the manual. As with my other Saito Engines (I have a pair of FG60 Radials) I put some oil in the crankcase prior to starting.
I managed (eventually) to get it running on the needle settings suggested in the manual, but I had a tough time getting it to start by lip starting. I used the choke rod but even that wouldnt draw much fuel, so I put my finger over the trumpet and it sucked fuel up. Because it is mounted with the cylinder vertical, whatever fuel got sucked into the trumpet, just fell out when I took my finger away. It was a battle to get fuel into the cylinder but eventually it fired up. I kept it running at a high idle, and transitioned it a few times as suggested, without going over 4K rpm. It was running rich, and I never got it running in high enough revs to set the high end. I have put maybe 300ml through it (just over half of a 500ml tank) and it was running ok. I wanted to heat cycle it by shutting down, allowing it to cool, and then restarting. ALWAYS an absolute HASSLE to get it running by flipping it. After a while I gave up and got the starter out. Even then, it is a bear to get running.
I have some concerns about the timing on this thing. It 'appears' that the timing is set to almost TDC or even a tiny bit before. This goes against the grain of most gassers that need to be at around 28 Deg BTDC. If I look at the location of the sensor in relation to the magnet, and just by guestimation of the compression stroke, it seems to be firing way out. While I was trying to get it started, and was turning the prop to get it in a position to flip it, it kicked back on me and whipped my ring finger...it was trying to start backwards! I am going to get my timing/degree wheel out and see exactly where it is firing, but I suspect it is all wrong. I dont think that manufacturers would let this pass because there is not enough (in my cursory observation) adjustment on the sensor to get it anywhere near 28Deg.... Is the ignition module allowing for the spark at such a timing state by retarding it?
Will report back later this week on the exact point of timing, but has anyone got any constructive commentary on the timing action on these engines?
Regards
Andy
09-10-2017, 12:27 AM
#5
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Huningue, Alsace, France
Posts: 35
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Hi Andy
Well after few good experiences and bad it all coms down to follow the instruction ...without being 100% by the book... I found that 4 cycles GAS mono cylinders no mater how well tuned they are they are much easier to start with a starter! Due to there nature. We make to many assumptions of similarity with 2 cycles engines. To prime I also put my finger where its best, the intake. Much more efficient…. I installed a pipe from the intake to inside of the plane to keep it from sucking worm air from the top of the cowl. I put my finger in that pipe in the cockpit to prim the carb. Through the years I did rebuilt the carb as I left gas in it over long period of storage…. I am happy with it but it did give me a run for my money…but I won… Physical reservoir level is important for fuel feed when unprimed. The carburetor is ceremonious to adjust so go slow 1/16th turns at the time (do not mix the needles your adjusting….it happens…) If totally lost go back to original set up and start again. Do not forget to adjust the valves COLD every 2 liters the first 20 liters. The electronic ignition has automatic advance, do not worry, it works after (I believe) 50% throttle. Once carb 99% adjusted you may temper with ignition pickup to gain 200, 300 RPMThat is my setup: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-warbirds-warplanes-200/11611759-top-rc-models-mkiv-full-composite-spitfire-game-changer-23.html
Well after few good experiences and bad it all coms down to follow the instruction ...without being 100% by the book... I found that 4 cycles GAS mono cylinders no mater how well tuned they are they are much easier to start with a starter! Due to there nature. We make to many assumptions of similarity with 2 cycles engines. To prime I also put my finger where its best, the intake. Much more efficient…. I installed a pipe from the intake to inside of the plane to keep it from sucking worm air from the top of the cowl. I put my finger in that pipe in the cockpit to prim the carb. Through the years I did rebuilt the carb as I left gas in it over long period of storage…. I am happy with it but it did give me a run for my money…but I won… Physical reservoir level is important for fuel feed when unprimed. The carburetor is ceremonious to adjust so go slow 1/16th turns at the time (do not mix the needles your adjusting….it happens…) If totally lost go back to original set up and start again. Do not forget to adjust the valves COLD every 2 liters the first 20 liters. The electronic ignition has automatic advance, do not worry, it works after (I believe) 50% throttle. Once carb 99% adjusted you may temper with ignition pickup to gain 200, 300 RPMThat is my setup: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-warbirds-warplanes-200/11611759-top-rc-models-mkiv-full-composite-spitfire-game-changer-23.html
09-10-2017, 01:01 AM
#6
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dubai, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posts: 500
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Marv, Iv'e seen your comments about how unhappy you were at some points in your journey, glad you have it sorted out. Just looking at your ignition, it looks different to mine, mine seems a lot smaller. It looks to be made by rcxel but with some Saito badging on it.
I am going to have a look and see where the ignition timing is with a wheel, because even with advance/retarding by the CDI, it still looks to be out by a bit. I am going to have another go at it this week some time, so hopefully will report back with different news. I really dont like using a starter on my engines, particularly the 4S as they can quite easily get into a hydrolock and putting a starter on them can do some damage. I hope that over time, it will become easier to start.
Seems a little extreme to have that pipe to avoid sucking in warm air from the cowl. Mine is going into a Black Horse Typhoon which is currently running on a DLE 55RA which is too much engine for it really, I am hoping the similar weight, but less power will give me a nice flying plane.
Your spit looks good!
I am going to have a look and see where the ignition timing is with a wheel, because even with advance/retarding by the CDI, it still looks to be out by a bit. I am going to have another go at it this week some time, so hopefully will report back with different news. I really dont like using a starter on my engines, particularly the 4S as they can quite easily get into a hydrolock and putting a starter on them can do some damage. I hope that over time, it will become easier to start.
Seems a little extreme to have that pipe to avoid sucking in warm air from the cowl. Mine is going into a Black Horse Typhoon which is currently running on a DLE 55RA which is too much engine for it really, I am hoping the similar weight, but less power will give me a nice flying plane.
Your spit looks good!
