Twin Reliability: Zenoah vs Fuji
08-07-2005, 08:46 AM
#1
Twin Reliability: Zenoah vs Fuji
Hi Guys-I have always used the Zenoah G38's in all my twin projects for their well known reliability. I have recently acquired another twin that has Fuji 32's on it. I am not familiar with the Fuji engines and would like some input on their reliablity and ease of use versus the Zenoah. I would really like to leave things as they are, but would swap them to G-38's if I must. Comment and feedback, Please. Thanks-Mike Oberst
08-07-2005, 09:13 AM
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RE: Twin Reliability: Zenoah vs Fuji
Mike,
Sorry I don't have personal experience with the fuji's but Greg's B 25 had twin fuji's
and placed first at Top Gun. Now his may be the latest version verse's the earlier
ones that did have problems. You will need to look at the engine numbers to see
what you have.
Chuck
Sorry I don't have personal experience with the fuji's but Greg's B 25 had twin fuji's
and placed first at Top Gun. Now his may be the latest version verse's the earlier
ones that did have problems. You will need to look at the engine numbers to see
what you have.
Chuck
08-07-2005, 09:20 PM
#6
RE: Twin Reliability: Zenoah vs Fuji
I witnessed all of Greg Hahn's 4 flights at Top Gun this year, and yes, his B-25 was powered by Fuji's.
I must tell you, though, that the left Fuji gave him an excellent opportunity to show off his unmatched flying skills by going dead towards the end of the third flight. He made two 90 degree turns into the dead engine and landed on the center stripe for a 93, his lowest score of the event. I would have given him a 100 just for bringing it home, but maybe TG judges don't have a lot of experience with flying engine out with large, heavy twin warbirds.
My limited personal experience is OK with both my Fuji-driven P-38 and Zenoah-driven P-61. I've had one engine out on the Fuji's which may have been an empty fuel tank, and none on the Zenoah's.
mt
I must tell you, though, that the left Fuji gave him an excellent opportunity to show off his unmatched flying skills by going dead towards the end of the third flight. He made two 90 degree turns into the dead engine and landed on the center stripe for a 93, his lowest score of the event. I would have given him a 100 just for bringing it home, but maybe TG judges don't have a lot of experience with flying engine out with large, heavy twin warbirds.
My limited personal experience is OK with both my Fuji-driven P-38 and Zenoah-driven P-61. I've had one engine out on the Fuji's which may have been an empty fuel tank, and none on the Zenoah's.
mt
08-08-2005, 08:25 AM
#7
RE: Twin Reliability: Zenoah vs Fuji
I know Greg is sponsored by Fuji, and if my engines were free, I'd be using Fuji exclusively also. So, the fact the he uses them doesn't carry much weight with me. I just know that with Zenoahs, unless you run them out of gas, rarely (never in my personal experience) quit. Thanks-Mike O
08-08-2005, 08:51 AM
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RE: Twin Reliability: Zenoah vs Fuji
I'm with you Mike...and adding the fact that one quit during Top Gun doesn't help. Stick with the Zenoah's, I've got 5 of them and have never had a dead stick....Damon
08-08-2005, 10:31 AM
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RE: Twin Reliability: Zenoah vs Fuji
Guys, just for your info and inquiry, I definately like the discussions on these subjects. It gives me a chance to do some clarifying and explaining. First off, I now am managing the Fuji line of engines for Great Planes, and have been consulting on them for the past year and a half. I have been around them for several years and also took some time to slowly "test the water's" with them to see it they were something I wanted to put my reputation behind.
I can definately tell you that the engines are of very high quality internally and in performance. As far as components ie: bearings, rods, castings etc. you couldn't tell the diffence between the Zenoah product and the Fuji. Where the difference lies is in the fire starter. All the Zenoah's have fixed timing, the Fuji's ATM has 12 deg. of advance, the EI version gives you a full 30 deg. of advance. All this adds up to better idle, greater top end performance and easier handling overall.
The fact of who pay's, or if it's "free", is totally meaningless to me, and should be to you, when it comes to bolting two engines to an airframe that took a year or more to build. Don't ever use something on your pride and joy just because it's "cheap" or "free". Sooner than later it will "cost" you!!
If you guys only knew how many times I've said no thanks to "free" stuff!
The dead engine I had, second round at Top Gun, was in fact my fault. I'm still not use to running EI engines that require a battery for ignition. I have used gas engines for years but usually on mag or cap disch. I keep leaving the switch "on" for the ignition and the battery slowly drains. Well I left the switch on for three days and even at that I almost got he whole program in before the battery finally went south. So the dead engine wasn't the engine's fault, it was user error!!!
Those BT-43's are the best all around engine package I've ever used. because of them I'd even consider another P-38, they'd make it a real "go buggy". I'm now putting one in a yellow P-47, just a great engine and real compact, essentially the same size as the Zenoah G-26.
The BT-32's you have in the C-47( iflybvm I know the plane well, I built it in "94") are the "A" version, I always used an electric starter on them so they never were a problem. The new BT-32B has a stronger cap magnet that creates a hotter spark making them easier to hand start. take your old glow electric starter and you won't have any problem.
hope I've been able to help answer some questions
thanks guys
GH
I can definately tell you that the engines are of very high quality internally and in performance. As far as components ie: bearings, rods, castings etc. you couldn't tell the diffence between the Zenoah product and the Fuji. Where the difference lies is in the fire starter. All the Zenoah's have fixed timing, the Fuji's ATM has 12 deg. of advance, the EI version gives you a full 30 deg. of advance. All this adds up to better idle, greater top end performance and easier handling overall.
The fact of who pay's, or if it's "free", is totally meaningless to me, and should be to you, when it comes to bolting two engines to an airframe that took a year or more to build. Don't ever use something on your pride and joy just because it's "cheap" or "free". Sooner than later it will "cost" you!!
If you guys only knew how many times I've said no thanks to "free" stuff!
The dead engine I had, second round at Top Gun, was in fact my fault. I'm still not use to running EI engines that require a battery for ignition. I have used gas engines for years but usually on mag or cap disch. I keep leaving the switch "on" for the ignition and the battery slowly drains. Well I left the switch on for three days and even at that I almost got he whole program in before the battery finally went south. So the dead engine wasn't the engine's fault, it was user error!!!
Those BT-43's are the best all around engine package I've ever used. because of them I'd even consider another P-38, they'd make it a real "go buggy". I'm now putting one in a yellow P-47, just a great engine and real compact, essentially the same size as the Zenoah G-26.
The BT-32's you have in the C-47( iflybvm I know the plane well, I built it in "94") are the "A" version, I always used an electric starter on them so they never were a problem. The new BT-32B has a stronger cap magnet that creates a hotter spark making them easier to hand start. take your old glow electric starter and you won't have any problem.
hope I've been able to help answer some questions
thanks guys
GH
08-08-2005, 01:40 PM
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RE: Twin Reliability: Zenoah vs Fuji
Greg Hahn:
Forgive me if the following sounds obsequious. It's meant to be sincere:
I have been very impressed with listening to you talk and write about modeling. You seem to think and act on a higher logical plane than the rest of us, with some pretty good results, obviously. Is there any way we could share in that, without, for example, calling you up every time we're deciding how to set up a warbird?
Have you witten any manuals, or even articles/treatises on your experience/approach to building and flying multi-engine warbirds? Would you consider doing something like that?
Thanks,
Mark Taylor
(2 TwinAirs, 2 P-61's, 5 P-38's, 1 tri-motor, not all living)
Forgive me if the following sounds obsequious. It's meant to be sincere:
I have been very impressed with listening to you talk and write about modeling. You seem to think and act on a higher logical plane than the rest of us, with some pretty good results, obviously. Is there any way we could share in that, without, for example, calling you up every time we're deciding how to set up a warbird?
Have you witten any manuals, or even articles/treatises on your experience/approach to building and flying multi-engine warbirds? Would you consider doing something like that?
Thanks,
Mark Taylor
(2 TwinAirs, 2 P-61's, 5 P-38's, 1 tri-motor, not all living)
08-08-2005, 09:38 PM
#13
RE: Twin Reliability: Zenoah vs Fuji
That is way cool GH would take some time to respond. I have five twins in my hangar, and am ready to go LARGE. I currently have a G62 that has given me no trouble at all, but I'm am always open to new products and ideas. Any and all input is greatly appreciated, and from the Top Gun winner himself........enough said.
08-09-2005, 10:25 AM
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RE: Twin Reliability: Zenoah vs Fuji
In reply to all:
Kram, I've yet to write an entire book. Not saying I never will, but it would get in the way of building, testing and the rest of what I truely enjoy about this hobby. ( I like to call it that, even though it's really not my hobby). My hobby is hunting and fishing, it helps to keep things in some sort if perspective. Probably the most usefull articles I've written for multi setups can be found in a book called "Ultimate RC Flight Guide" from Air Age Media, (Model Airplane News). It is available from them or you can get it through Tower, under software, books & videos.
I monitor these forums often and comment when I can. If you get into a project and need some advice, throw the question out there. I can't gurantee an answer over nite but I'll do my best. I usually don't spend much time on the computor, same reason as with my lack of writing.
Flak, Thumbs up, I started cutting parts last nite. It's always sad to loose a "good one" and it does effect me more than I ever show in public! But I now get to incorporate all those new ideas I had while building the last one. There's always something you'd do different to make it simpler, or more reliable or closer to "scale". That's why this hobby is never boring, we can always do a "better one". THINK POSITIVE
Fili, just remember that as the size goes so do the stakes! The most important issue in going large is to be sure you can comfortably store and transport the finished product. If you don't plan in advance for that you will quickly understand the meaning of "inconvenience". A G-62 is a great engine, and it will probably outlast you. I've rarely run across a well broken in gas airplane engine, we barely put enough hours on them to seat the ring. Chrome has a very low coefficient of friction especially against itself, so a chrome ring in a chrome cylinder takes a long time to seat. The big drawback of the zenoah engines is the vibration at idle and at full. this is not due to ballance but to ignition timing. Very similar to running a long duration cam in a small block Chevy. It causes the engine to "loap" or "miss" for lack of a better word, because the intake timing is set for higher rpm.
Ifly, yep, happened second round over the weekend at the Nats in Muncie. I was setting up for the high speed flyby from deep left, locked up into failsafe and went straight in off the approach end of the runway. I'm still testing batteries and rec to see what happened? at least no one got hurt!!!!! another 4 or 5 seconds on the inbound and it would've been real ugly.
thanks guys
GH
Kram, I've yet to write an entire book. Not saying I never will, but it would get in the way of building, testing and the rest of what I truely enjoy about this hobby. ( I like to call it that, even though it's really not my hobby). My hobby is hunting and fishing, it helps to keep things in some sort if perspective. Probably the most usefull articles I've written for multi setups can be found in a book called "Ultimate RC Flight Guide" from Air Age Media, (Model Airplane News). It is available from them or you can get it through Tower, under software, books & videos.
I monitor these forums often and comment when I can. If you get into a project and need some advice, throw the question out there. I can't gurantee an answer over nite but I'll do my best. I usually don't spend much time on the computor, same reason as with my lack of writing.
Flak, Thumbs up, I started cutting parts last nite. It's always sad to loose a "good one" and it does effect me more than I ever show in public! But I now get to incorporate all those new ideas I had while building the last one. There's always something you'd do different to make it simpler, or more reliable or closer to "scale". That's why this hobby is never boring, we can always do a "better one". THINK POSITIVE
Fili, just remember that as the size goes so do the stakes! The most important issue in going large is to be sure you can comfortably store and transport the finished product. If you don't plan in advance for that you will quickly understand the meaning of "inconvenience". A G-62 is a great engine, and it will probably outlast you. I've rarely run across a well broken in gas airplane engine, we barely put enough hours on them to seat the ring. Chrome has a very low coefficient of friction especially against itself, so a chrome ring in a chrome cylinder takes a long time to seat. The big drawback of the zenoah engines is the vibration at idle and at full. this is not due to ballance but to ignition timing. Very similar to running a long duration cam in a small block Chevy. It causes the engine to "loap" or "miss" for lack of a better word, because the intake timing is set for higher rpm.
Ifly, yep, happened second round over the weekend at the Nats in Muncie. I was setting up for the high speed flyby from deep left, locked up into failsafe and went straight in off the approach end of the runway. I'm still testing batteries and rec to see what happened? at least no one got hurt!!!!! another 4 or 5 seconds on the inbound and it would've been real ugly.
thanks guys
GH
