Pilot Chad

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Hi,
I am thinking into the far future about a twin, and wondering how to know your ready for one? And whats a good one besides the twinstar (I like the P-38 and p-82 mustang)

Ed_Moorman

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It would probably be good to get some twin experience before you leap into scale. You need to learn how to keep 2 engines running and how to use the rudder before you fly a plane that is going to be more critical than a sport plane. For an ARF twin, you have the already mentioned TwinStar or the Cedar Hobbies Twin Stick. For a kit, you can't beat the Northeast Aerodynamics Twin Air 45. Another idea is the Great Planes Profile-38, a profile, mock P-38 kit.

Pick yourself up one of these and come on down to Pensacola on Septenber 10-11 to our twin meet. See the flier at the top of this forum. There will probably only be sport fliers there since the scale guys tend to fly at their meets rather than mix in with ARF pilots, so don't expect to see an example of your future project. I do have a twin fuselage plane.

Build-n-flyer-RCU

My Feedback: (4)

Ed's recommendations are right on the mark.

If you can handle a quick sport plane you should be able to fly any of these planes without any problems as long as both engines are running. And as long as you don't panic, getting the plane down in one piece with an engine out (on these twins) should not be a problem, but this is the tricky part.

Airplane and engine setup experience is probably just as important (if not more so) than flying experience. If the engines are reliable and you don't have deadsticks or throttle control problems, then the flying is easy.

For this reason I prefer the Twin Stick or Twin-Air. There is a good selection of very reliable 46 size engines (OS 46AX for example). From what I have seen the smaller engines used with the Twinstar or profile P-38 don't seem to be nearly as reliable.

Walt

Gremlin Castle

My Feedback: (14)

Probably one other benchmark in skill level for twins is the ability to make successful deadstick landings without a lot of drama attached. This will give you the option of closing the throttle on the live engine if necessary rather than struggle with it and fall below Vmc while trying to get back to the runway. Also for a first twin heed the advice of others here and pick something that has a lower wing loading rather than something with a huge cool factor.
Remember that the ugliest plane that will taxi back to the pit area is superior to the very best being carried back in a trash bag.

Pilot Chad

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ok thanks guys. I think i will wait a couple of planes. Perhaps get a warbird in first.

twinman

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OH, boy, as chance to get on soapbox.........Welcome to twinsanity!!
When are you ready for twins? I really cannot add much to above comments. DO NOT DO A SCALE TWIN FIRST!! Been there, done that...don't do that.
Let me ask this. Do you ALWAYS fly using the rudder in coordinated turns? If not, learn NOW. DO NOT fly twins without this skill, you cannot learn with an engine out.
The above recommendations are great, including the twin fuse conversion, as they are very forgiving, but not the same as a single engine plane. ALWAYS use a partner to do the vertical test before each and every flight. On a single, you might skip this and get by with a straight ahead dead stick landing. On a twin, lose an engine on takeoff and you loose the plane to a snap roll...NOW!
Due to higher wing loading, they "feel" heavier, that is they are harder to roll and get stopped, harder to loop and come out, and land a bit faster than you are normally accustomed to.
Can you fly a twin on a single engine? Depends on the plane. Personally, the Cedar Hobbies will take off and fly on one single engine, roll and carefull loop. ( Note, do not try this, I am crazy!) Try to fly a P-38 on a single engine, and I have owned five, including two now, and you will snap roll and crash. The VQ P-61, I have flown the prototype and lost an engine and other than a heart attack, it was easy to control to a landing. I just this weekend started to fly my VQ P-61, but kept both engines running..(Thank GOD)
How many planes have you flown and are any of them heavier wing loading? I am not an expert on single engine warbirds that have high wing loading, but most do and will snap into the ground if flown too slow on approach.
Look at above comments for ARF's or kits and you will find it not as scary as one might think, but go slow and you will enjoy this more and be the talk or envy, whichever you prefer, of your flying field.
Good Luck and welcome aboard.
Twinman

sbd-5

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there is a few things i would like to add to the above.spin recovery including flat spins and the ability to recover the aircraft from any attitude in a precise and controlled manner.when i flew my first twin back in 73 not many twins were being flown back then and i was on my own.i practiced about a month before the test flight doing basic pattern manuvers,especially rolls and spins,inverted flight and landings by cutting the power at anytime during a manuver and landing on one try without touching the throttle.all of this practice was worth it as that scracth built twin still survives today.

rryman

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I couldn't add much to the advice given above. All good stuff, and right on. Someone on one of these threads said, "multi-engine planes fly basically the same as single engine planes--until an engine quits! That's when the rubber meets the road, so to speak.
I would only add that the China Models C-160 Transall is an ARF, and a very good looking one at that, is a high wing, relatively inexpensive, and very light. Flys great on LA .25's and looks very scale. Can't address the engine out handling because I haven't had one yet. Others on RCU have the same plane and said it is vey manageable with an engine out.
Just to toss another plane into the mix! Just remember-"Airspeed is life-Altitude is life Insurance!"
Randy

BillS

Triples are statistically much less likely to present critical engine out situations. Almost always there is time to get it down before a second engine goes down. Also the center engine presents air directly to the tail surfaces necessary for control.

You cannot learn to successfully fly emergency’s after the emergency happens. Practice during non-emergency time is mandatory. Any of the newer radios have the capability of simulating engines out. It is not all that hard to learn to fly with an engine out provided there is a way to practice without destroying the airframe. Engine out flying is distinctly different but not all that hard if practiced.

For me triples make a better training ground. After you become proficient the center engine does not need to be started,

Bill

sbd-5

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then there are four engines like my stafford b-24.if you lose an engine it is hardly noticeable,thank god i have yet to lose two on the same side.then there is a nice twin that any one can fly the cessna skymaster both engines are on the centerline.

BillS

Losing two on one side is a good example of an emergency that should be practiced with the ability to throttle them back up. Sounds dangerous.

Bill

Pilot Chad

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ok thanks guys. I am kinda just off the trainer, and was looking for it to be a 4th plane, but i think i will go ahead and wait about a eyar and see how i am then.

sbd-5

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if you really want to get ready for a twin make your second or third plane a sport air 40 and fly the heck out of it using the rudder to make coordinated turns, also cross wind landing with cross coupled airleron and rudder,while you are practicing all this start building the twin aire 45.it is basically the same plane with two engines and will fly almost the same.and has very good single engine performance

Build-n-flyer-RCU

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Pilot Chad,

For reference, my Twin-Air was my 5th plane and I built it about 2 years after learning to fly R/C. The timing was about right for me.

First get a few single-engine sport planes under your belt, then go for it!

Walt

sbd-5

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getting a twin is not about how many planes you have flown but how well you can fly .when landing do you always use a left hand pattern,do you find yourself making mostly left turns.start doing right hand patterns for landing and right hand turns till they are just as easy to do as left hand.

Mavrick 15

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sbd-5's first statement is by far the truth. Take me for instance. I bought a Nexstar trained on it for 2 months. Then i bought a GP P-38 (Built it in two weeks). I used OS .15 la's for power and I flew it once that year because I thought it flew to fast for me. After flying it this summer I now think it is way under powered. But it is all about how much experience you have and if you willing to build a aircraft and crash it on its maiden. Obviously try not to crash on the maiden. Really you got nothing to lose, except maybe a couple hundred bucks. But to me its about the experience. Did i mention I'm broke. Just kidding. Think of it this way twins are double the fun!

multiflyer

Lots of good advice above. I have been building and flying multiengine planes for many years. Here are the main points:

1. Multi's fly the same as an equivalent single, if all engines stay running.

2. There is no such thing as a multi that will not lose an engine eventually. If someone says there is, they just haven't flown it enough yet!

3. Flying with an engine is not hard, but it is different. Recognizing when one has failed and dealing with it properly is a unique skill that must be learned and practiced.

4. Most scale multi's don't last long because they are so darn heavy. Vast majority of scale planes are way way overweight for their size, and often underpowered too. Because of the heavy wing loadings, most scale multi's would be scary to fly even if you removed the engines and mounted one big one front and center.

5. One simplifying technique to handle the loss of an engine is to simply throttle back and glide in. Treat it like a dead-stick with a single. Since most scale multi's have such a high wing loading, they glide like bricks! So not really a practical solution. And there is still the issue of being able to recognizing the engine failure before losing control.

6. Last, the engines don't need to be synchronized. Set each mixture individually for reliability (not too lean), and give a good long nose up at full power test before takeoff to verify adequate mixture.

Definitely get a cheep rugged twin trainer to learn multiengine flying. Setup each throttle on a separate channel and use the programmable mixing of a computer radio to slave them together. There are many ways to do this. This way you can throttle one back during flight, way up high where it is nice and safe, to learn engine out flying. Just get some cheep ARF, your (anyone's) old forgiving trainer is just fine, and bash 2 engine boxes onto the wings. Nothing fancy, then go for it. This address basic engine out skill.

Now learn this again with high wing loading. Just add weight to your twin trainer a little at a time until you can fly it engine-out at high wing loading. repeat until the wing loading gets as heavy as your proposed scale monster.

When you can do both of these, then your skills are getting into the ball park.

Multiflyer